Plane crashes in Marchovelette (Belgium): several dead
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BBC News update
"I just saw a plane lose its right wing in mid-flight and crash. I heard a massive 'bang' towards the south of Marchovelette," one witness told Belgian television.
BBC News report with pictures and video.
BBC News - Belgian plane crash 'kills 10' near Namur
BBC News report with pictures and video.
BBC News - Belgian plane crash 'kills 10' near Namur
AD No.: 2007- 0241R4 for Pilatus PC-6
Findings of corrosion, wear and cracks in the upper wing strut fittings on some
PC-6 aircraft have been reported in the past. It is possible that the spherical
bearing of the wing strut fittings installed in the underwing can be loose in the
fitting or cannot rotate because of corrosion. In this condition, the joint cannot
function as designed and fatigue cracks may then develop. Undetected cracks, wear and/or corrosion in this area could cause failure of the upper attachment fitting, leading to failure of the wing structure and subsequent loss of control of the aircraft.
To address this problem, FOCA published AD TM-L Nr. 80.627-6 / Index 72-2
and HB-2006-400 and EASA published AD 2007-0114 to require specific
inspections and to obtain a fleet status. Since the issuance of AD 2007-0114,
the reported data proved that it was necessary to establish and require
repetitive inspections.
EASA published Emergency AD 2007-0241-E to extend the applicability and to
require repetitive eddy current and visual inspections of the upper wing strut
fitting for evidence of cracks, wear and/or corrosion and examination of the...
I wonder if this AD was done??
There was another PC6 in 2008 that also lost a wing.
Findings of corrosion, wear and cracks in the upper wing strut fittings on some
PC-6 aircraft have been reported in the past. It is possible that the spherical
bearing of the wing strut fittings installed in the underwing can be loose in the
fitting or cannot rotate because of corrosion. In this condition, the joint cannot
function as designed and fatigue cracks may then develop. Undetected cracks, wear and/or corrosion in this area could cause failure of the upper attachment fitting, leading to failure of the wing structure and subsequent loss of control of the aircraft.
To address this problem, FOCA published AD TM-L Nr. 80.627-6 / Index 72-2
and HB-2006-400 and EASA published AD 2007-0114 to require specific
inspections and to obtain a fleet status. Since the issuance of AD 2007-0114,
the reported data proved that it was necessary to establish and require
repetitive inspections.
EASA published Emergency AD 2007-0241-E to extend the applicability and to
require repetitive eddy current and visual inspections of the upper wing strut
fitting for evidence of cracks, wear and/or corrosion and examination of the...
I wonder if this AD was done??
There was another PC6 in 2008 that also lost a wing.
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'Divers will generally try to get out if there is a problem and they have 1000 feet. As said above, this might not be possible with only one wing. They also generally have little respect for the aircraft - the ride up is an embuggerance. 
Like others have already said, these aircraft are often old and are pushed to the limits - I don't know about the 'beyond' VNE bit but certainly 'at' - and I am surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.
Like others have already said, these aircraft are often old and are pushed to the limits - I don't know about the 'beyond' VNE bit but certainly 'at' - and I am surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.
Last edited by gijoe; 20th Oct 2013 at 19:43.
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In the similar 2008 crash in Spain where a wing was lost the crash report indicates that the doors of the plane flew open and the parachutists that survived were thrown out by the centrifugal force of the rapidly rotating plane, they did not jump out on their own accord. It seems likely that it would be very difficult to leave such a situation voluntarily due to the G forces.
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Stuck door
I wonder if the twist that the plane must have experienced after the loss of the wing, could have bent the rear part of the fuselage in a way so that the doors was jammed in the closed position.
Last edited by F-16GUY; 20th Oct 2013 at 20:04.
VNE
@ gijoe (but not only)
I' m wondering wich kind of datas do you have to substain that PC-6 descents are performed at VNe
I' m wondering wich kind of datas do you have to substain that PC-6 descents are performed at VNe
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VNE
Who said anything about PC-6 data at VNE?
Not me!
...But I would bow to your obvious great knowledge on all matters such...
Not me!
...But I would bow to your obvious great knowledge on all matters such...
Never went past any limit even though in my humble career I''ve never seen anything like this!
Most (if not all) the pilots of this aircraft are well trained professionals dropping for fun during week-ends. They would not destroy the tool that makes their joy during their days OFF.
Always more and more jumpers in the Pilatus PC6 : 6,7,8,10, an d now 11 !!
As long as the MTOW, MLW and CG are properly respected...
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Always more and more jumpers in the Pilatus PC6 : 6,7,8,10, an d now 11 !!
We jumped ten out of them in the 1970's ( Helio Stallion ) regularly in Florida.
If it's over the max weight limit then I can see your point... otherwise ?
We jumped ten out of them in the 1970's ( Helio Stallion ) regularly in Florida.
If it's over the max weight limit then I can see your point... otherwise ?
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Thing is, people have got bigger, I'm not saying they were all big blokes in this instance, but don't discount the possibility.
10 big blokes by todays standards, chutes and a moderate fuel load could easily see a pc6 overweight
10 big blokes by todays standards, chutes and a moderate fuel load could easily see a pc6 overweight
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Company brochure specs for Turbo Porter lists ten parachutists and freight load of 2200 lbs.
( also lists 9 seatbelts for jumpers . . . strange ?? )
https://aerospaceblog.files.wordpres...t-ltd-pc-6.pdf
The gear today is MUCH lighter / smaller than 1970's when we had first gen piggyback rigs, and jumpers were just as porky then as today.
I would bet we were maxed out more often than todays loads at a guess.
.
( also lists 9 seatbelts for jumpers . . . strange ?? )
https://aerospaceblog.files.wordpres...t-ltd-pc-6.pdf
The gear today is MUCH lighter / smaller than 1970's when we had first gen piggyback rigs, and jumpers were just as porky then as today.
I would bet we were maxed out more often than todays loads at a guess.
.
Last edited by TylerMonkey; 21st Oct 2013 at 14:12.
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We jumped ten out of them in the 1970's ( Helio Stallion ) regularly in Florida
It is not only a matter of weight, but on number of heads for insurance.
$$$ Dropping managment depends much more of descending speed than climbing speed...
About VNE+ please don't ask me names...
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Roulis please...
You might be right with your VNE+ but at this moment you are still only assuming so please don't act like you know exactly what happened..
1. I have to meet the first DZ boss that tells me to descent faster. Usually it is the other way around. Their main priority is to keep the plane in a safe and good condition.
2. By flying the proper climb speed you can win MUCH more TIME and FUEL than descending faster. With descending you could maybe win a mere 30 seconds. With climbing you could win minutes on each load...
You might be right with your VNE+ but at this moment you are still only assuming so please don't act like you know exactly what happened..
Dropping managment depends much more of descending speed than climbing speed...
2. By flying the proper climb speed you can win MUCH more TIME and FUEL than descending faster. With descending you could maybe win a mere 30 seconds. With climbing you could win minutes on each load...
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Correct.
By flying proper climb speed you can win minutes on each climb.
These minutes you consume "climb power" fuel consumption. (High)
On a decend, the power is at idle and you can "win" some "idle time" fuel consumption. (Low)
These minutes you consume "climb power" fuel consumption. (High)
On a decend, the power is at idle and you can "win" some "idle time" fuel consumption. (Low)
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A) Money
The money to save when you are dropping is not only for fuel consumption, but price of time in flight in the logbook.
Which rules apply if the jumping center association is not the owner of the aircraft (which was the case in Belgium) ?
B) Technic
1. A quick climbing is learned during commercial pilot using best Vertical speed.
2. A level flight exists then where you can win 3 minutes or more if you are not on axis and have to come back.. : Untaught is the path to get around 10 seconds (point A) and not 3 minutes (point B) on axis before the dropping point. Two factors have to be managed :
2.1 Reaching the dropping level at the good position (point A) heading as mandated (mostly headwind) at the dropping speed with stabilized power.
2.2 Knowing where the dropping point is at the first flight when you have no clouds, climbing smokes, etc. only Met wind forecast. Every pilot has his technic to limit the level flight duration (see point 4)
3. The descent technic is only transmitted by rumors, the head of the Drop Center says very hypocriticaly "do as for yourself..." but starts the chronometer ! I mostly chosed to roll as soon the jumpers have leaved, avoiding them, and dive so much as possible. Someone - not me ! - are using the margin over VNE before constant deformation - twisted aircrafts exist!! -, or don't respect low level turbulence - not me -. The aircraft flies toward a short final near of the waiting next stick climbing quickly in the aircraft without stopping engine(s) and preparing and checking it for next take-off.
4. A mainlevel flight is often omitted (around 6 minutes) : The official and only technic taught to French professional parachutists (holding the validated DGAC license) uses two sickys.
You -the pilot - fly assumed headwind at the dropping altitude/height/level with stabilized dropping speed and power. You inform then the jumping instructor/leader you allow him dropping. At any moment you remain the captain of the flight, you respect the rules, and may stop the dropping.
The jumping instructor/leader (waering his chute) using the first sicky, oppens the door, puting and keeping the whole head outside in the wind and watching the altitude on his own altimeter, the landing point and the aircraft ground course and eventual drift, he asks eventual corrections left (turning left and right) or right (turning right and left) he throws firmly the first sticky passing exactly overhead the landing point without asking to "cut" the power, following the slowly descending sticky by the eyes until it is on the ground. Then the jumping leader estimates the drift distance of the sicky and report the distance from the landing point in the opposite direction to reckon the presumed dropping point. You the pilot did already a first 180° turn and are informed the assumed position of the dropping point, fly downind until abeam that point, continue 10+ seconds and do the second 180° turn (same sense).
The jumping instructor head outside on the door with the second sicky asks you eventual corrections and throws the "corrected sicky" overhead the reckoned drop point, follows it by eyes until the ground not far from the landing point, notices an ultimate correction translated to the dropping point.
You are now ready to drop your jumpers or freight.
C) Safety improvement
As about the sharing pedals technic (AA587), or fake documents, dangerous technics are used unsaid, and need better regulation.
The money to save when you are dropping is not only for fuel consumption, but price of time in flight in the logbook.
Which rules apply if the jumping center association is not the owner of the aircraft (which was the case in Belgium) ?
B) Technic
1. A quick climbing is learned during commercial pilot using best Vertical speed.
2. A level flight exists then where you can win 3 minutes or more if you are not on axis and have to come back.. : Untaught is the path to get around 10 seconds (point A) and not 3 minutes (point B) on axis before the dropping point. Two factors have to be managed :
2.1 Reaching the dropping level at the good position (point A) heading as mandated (mostly headwind) at the dropping speed with stabilized power.
2.2 Knowing where the dropping point is at the first flight when you have no clouds, climbing smokes, etc. only Met wind forecast. Every pilot has his technic to limit the level flight duration (see point 4)
3. The descent technic is only transmitted by rumors, the head of the Drop Center says very hypocriticaly "do as for yourself..." but starts the chronometer ! I mostly chosed to roll as soon the jumpers have leaved, avoiding them, and dive so much as possible. Someone - not me ! - are using the margin over VNE before constant deformation - twisted aircrafts exist!! -, or don't respect low level turbulence - not me -. The aircraft flies toward a short final near of the waiting next stick climbing quickly in the aircraft without stopping engine(s) and preparing and checking it for next take-off.
4. A mainlevel flight is often omitted (around 6 minutes) : The official and only technic taught to French professional parachutists (holding the validated DGAC license) uses two sickys.
You -the pilot - fly assumed headwind at the dropping altitude/height/level with stabilized dropping speed and power. You inform then the jumping instructor/leader you allow him dropping. At any moment you remain the captain of the flight, you respect the rules, and may stop the dropping.
The jumping instructor/leader (waering his chute) using the first sicky, oppens the door, puting and keeping the whole head outside in the wind and watching the altitude on his own altimeter, the landing point and the aircraft ground course and eventual drift, he asks eventual corrections left (turning left and right) or right (turning right and left) he throws firmly the first sticky passing exactly overhead the landing point without asking to "cut" the power, following the slowly descending sticky by the eyes until it is on the ground. Then the jumping leader estimates the drift distance of the sicky and report the distance from the landing point in the opposite direction to reckon the presumed dropping point. You the pilot did already a first 180° turn and are informed the assumed position of the dropping point, fly downind until abeam that point, continue 10+ seconds and do the second 180° turn (same sense).
The jumping instructor head outside on the door with the second sicky asks you eventual corrections and throws the "corrected sicky" overhead the reckoned drop point, follows it by eyes until the ground not far from the landing point, notices an ultimate correction translated to the dropping point.
You are now ready to drop your jumpers or freight.
C) Safety improvement
As about the sharing pedals technic (AA587), or fake documents, dangerous technics are used unsaid, and need better regulation.
Last edited by roulishollandais; 24th Oct 2013 at 15:57. Reason: spelling; improving text (italic)
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Accident at Marchovelette.
I don't know if it helps.
1. The aircraft was not owned by the parachute club but by a separate company.(Namur Air Promotion)
2. The sliding door on the right side of the cabin fell in flight before the crash and seemed undamaged on the photographs.
3. The outer part of the right wing was sheared in way of the inner end (fuselage side) of the aileron which remained attached to the broken wing section.
Willy
1. The aircraft was not owned by the parachute club but by a separate company.(Namur Air Promotion)
2. The sliding door on the right side of the cabin fell in flight before the crash and seemed undamaged on the photographs.
3. The outer part of the right wing was sheared in way of the inner end (fuselage side) of the aileron which remained attached to the broken wing section.
Willy
