Sleep walking towards April 2014
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks again for your thoughts Deefer.
I was using the 'flag of convieniece' moniker to try to illustrate that there was no other reason for this particular aircraft to be on the N reg. In other words, no circumstances that might support the 'operator' being outside Euroland.
I have looked at the legislation, formed the same opinion as yourself, and am now, after much sweat and cash, a couple of weeks (fingers crossed) from a shiny new EASA CPL/IR.
The reason I'm canvassing views, is that there seems to be a significant body of informed opinion, that does not believe it's going to happen. Too many people, with serious vested interests, to confidently ignore.
I was using the 'flag of convieniece' moniker to try to illustrate that there was no other reason for this particular aircraft to be on the N reg. In other words, no circumstances that might support the 'operator' being outside Euroland.
I have looked at the legislation, formed the same opinion as yourself, and am now, after much sweat and cash, a couple of weeks (fingers crossed) from a shiny new EASA CPL/IR.
The reason I'm canvassing views, is that there seems to be a significant body of informed opinion, that does not believe it's going to happen. Too many people, with serious vested interests, to confidently ignore.
Last edited by bestman; 13th Aug 2013 at 05:48.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA licence will need to be converted if living in Europe
I'm not going to paraphrase Annex 3 to the regulations, instead here is the text... I think residence is important...
A. VALIDATION OF LICENCES
General
1. A pilot licence issued in compliance with the requirements of ICAO Annex 1 by a third country may be validated by the competent authority of a Member State.
Pilots shall apply to the competent authority of the Member State where they reside or are established, or, if they are not residing in the territory of the Member States, where the operator for which they are flying or intend to fly has its principal place of business.
2. The period of validation of a licence shall not exceed 1 year, provided that the basic licence remains valid.
This period may only be extended once by the competent authority that issued the validation when, during the validation period, the pilot has applied, or is undergoing training, for the issuance of a licence in accordance with Part-FCL. This extension shall cover the period of time necessary for the licence to be issued in accordance with Part-FCL.
The holders of a licence accepted by a Member State shall exercise their privileges in accordance with the requirements stated in Part-FCL.
Pilot licences for commercial air transport and other commercial activities
3. In the case of pilot licences for commercial air transport and other commercial activities, the holder shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) complete, as a skill test, the type or class rating revalidation requirements of Part-FCL relevant to the privileges of the licence held;
(b) demonstrate that he/she has acquired knowledge of the relevant parts of Part-OPS and Part-FCL;
(c) demonstrate that he/she has acquired knowledge of English in accordance with FCL.055;
(d) hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate, issued in accordance with Part-Medical;
(e) in the case of aeroplanes, comply with the experience requirements set out in the following table: [see the actual regs, I haven't pasted the table]
A. VALIDATION OF LICENCES
General
1. A pilot licence issued in compliance with the requirements of ICAO Annex 1 by a third country may be validated by the competent authority of a Member State.
Pilots shall apply to the competent authority of the Member State where they reside or are established, or, if they are not residing in the territory of the Member States, where the operator for which they are flying or intend to fly has its principal place of business.
2. The period of validation of a licence shall not exceed 1 year, provided that the basic licence remains valid.
This period may only be extended once by the competent authority that issued the validation when, during the validation period, the pilot has applied, or is undergoing training, for the issuance of a licence in accordance with Part-FCL. This extension shall cover the period of time necessary for the licence to be issued in accordance with Part-FCL.
The holders of a licence accepted by a Member State shall exercise their privileges in accordance with the requirements stated in Part-FCL.
Pilot licences for commercial air transport and other commercial activities
3. In the case of pilot licences for commercial air transport and other commercial activities, the holder shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) complete, as a skill test, the type or class rating revalidation requirements of Part-FCL relevant to the privileges of the licence held;
(b) demonstrate that he/she has acquired knowledge of the relevant parts of Part-OPS and Part-FCL;
(c) demonstrate that he/she has acquired knowledge of English in accordance with FCL.055;
(d) hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate, issued in accordance with Part-Medical;
(e) in the case of aeroplanes, comply with the experience requirements set out in the following table: [see the actual regs, I haven't pasted the table]
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
N reg non resident pilot
Given the above in Annex 3 the only time an FAA license will be acceptable in Europe is:
1. Flying an N reg aircraft that is based outside of Europe, or
2. A non-resident FAA licensed pilot travelling to Europe to pilot a private N-REG aircraft based in Europe.
If the pilot is flying privately in an N-REG in Europe and the pilot is resident in Europe he will have to transfer his FAA license to an EASA license.
1. Flying an N reg aircraft that is based outside of Europe, or
2. A non-resident FAA licensed pilot travelling to Europe to pilot a private N-REG aircraft based in Europe.
If the pilot is flying privately in an N-REG in Europe and the pilot is resident in Europe he will have to transfer his FAA license to an EASA license.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks asdf123,
Any chance of a link?
I wonder wether the CAA will be handing out 'one year' validations to everyone that asks? And if so, will they then issue another one, if you sign up for some ground school - effectively postponing D day for another two years from April 2014?
Any chance of a link?
I wonder wether the CAA will be handing out 'one year' validations to everyone that asks? And if so, will they then issue another one, if you sign up for some ground school - effectively postponing D day for another two years from April 2014?
Am I still here?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When this new requirement comes into force, can anybody explain to me how an EASA Authority can validate a third country licence for a third country registered aircraft. eg We have third country licenced pilots (US, Canadian) flying third country registered aircraft (Bermudan, Cayman,IOM). These pilots are currently validated by the country of register of the aircraft. As far as I am aware avalidation can only be issued by an authority for aircraft registered in their jurisdiction.
On this basis how can an EASA authority issue a validation for an aircraft that is not in their oversight>
Is there now a different type of validation being issued ??
On this basis how can an EASA authority issue a validation for an aircraft that is not in their oversight>
Is there now a different type of validation being issued ??
Last edited by B222; 15th Aug 2013 at 09:58.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Link to EASA regs
EASA - Rulemaking Regulations
All the various regs are here - choose the Aircrew link for PART-FCL.
ASDF
All the various regs are here - choose the Aircrew link for PART-FCL.
ASDF
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Between Asia and South Africa
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lots of EU operators are going to lose A/C management with this " rubbish" EU law.
Most of EU based bizjet management companies are managing foreign aircraft companies ( Chinese,Russian,African, and few other countries...), employing few local pilots. If these pilots are threatened to lose their job in their own countries guess what will happen next...
This might put a lot of EASA licenced pilots to return to their own countries without a job( where there is no pilot jobs) and so EASA/EU will have create more dammage to them than protecting them... So EASA carry on stiring the ****!
Most of EU based bizjet management companies are managing foreign aircraft companies ( Chinese,Russian,African, and few other countries...), employing few local pilots. If these pilots are threatened to lose their job in their own countries guess what will happen next...
This might put a lot of EASA licenced pilots to return to their own countries without a job( where there is no pilot jobs) and so EASA/EU will have create more dammage to them than protecting them... So EASA carry on stiring the ****!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The EASA regs are a mess and a legal mess at that! The commission and EASA are at loggerheads hence the change of leadership at EASA to help fix that conflict.
Anyway J the Third country pilot issues have been delayed by the Commission to April 2015 is likely to be delayed again and what will be on the plate then will without doubt not be what is on the plate now!
Pilot licences for commercial air transport
Just as an example the red bit caused a lot of trouble and was unilaterally removed by the CAA with a new interpretation !!! Not a bad lot our CAA and wish they still regulated us independently from the EASA rubbish.
Pace
Anyway J the Third country pilot issues have been delayed by the Commission to April 2015 is likely to be delayed again and what will be on the plate then will without doubt not be what is on the plate now!
Pilot licences for commercial air transport
and other commercial activities
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 11th Dec 2013 at 15:58.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am still no wiser
Than when I read post1.
The general purpose of written regulations is to establish the frame work for operations.
These regulations are subject to interpretation by each member state, each operator, each owner and each crew member, as well as each poster here has their own version.
Compounded by the ability it is suggested to issue "Validations".
Just my little thought, but why not create a world aviation authority and call it JAA, or something similar.
Glf
The general purpose of written regulations is to establish the frame work for operations.
These regulations are subject to interpretation by each member state, each operator, each owner and each crew member, as well as each poster here has their own version.
Compounded by the ability it is suggested to issue "Validations".
Just my little thought, but why not create a world aviation authority and call it JAA, or something similar.
Glf
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my little thought, but why not create a world aviation authority and call it JAA, or something similar.
but no! high paid jobs for the boys, gold plated pension schemes and large expenses accounts at the wine bars of Brussels for the regulators and headaches and expense for the rest of us
No wonder Europe is going down the plug hole
Pace
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can advise that the commission voted for the 2015 extension, that there will very likely be a bi lateral agreement with the FAA which with their estimate will be in place within 12 months.
This is in a letter from the commission to our European Lawyers so either another extension or something very different on the plate by then!
Pace
This is in a letter from the commission to our European Lawyers so either another extension or something very different on the plate by then!
Pace
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Between Asia and South Africa
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Pace ,I have the same info. They are working on a BASA "commercial licences" not sure what to expect , but hoping they will atleast reduce requirements for conversion for high time pilots .
Let's see ...
J
Let's see ...
J
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAQ
Not sure where your info is from but mine is an official response from the Commission which I am reluctant to post here.
Reading between the lines the problem is with third country licence holders (broad brush not FAA) meeting certain standards if European based.
Two ways of achieving that which are to look at individuals which is not practical or an acceptance of certain standards through a blanket BASA with that country.
the FAA with its proven safety standards should not be a problem and as such the focus would be on differences i.e. Air law and a certain control over those aircraft based in Europe. Both which can be achieved without resort to dual licensing.
at a guess an Air law exam, maybe a flight test and some agreed legal control over naughty boys and girls flying N reg in Europe.
i most certainly did not get the impression of an expensive dual licence requirement or that a BASA was not expected later than 12 months hence.
Pace
Not sure where your info is from but mine is an official response from the Commission which I am reluctant to post here.
Reading between the lines the problem is with third country licence holders (broad brush not FAA) meeting certain standards if European based.
Two ways of achieving that which are to look at individuals which is not practical or an acceptance of certain standards through a blanket BASA with that country.
the FAA with its proven safety standards should not be a problem and as such the focus would be on differences i.e. Air law and a certain control over those aircraft based in Europe. Both which can be achieved without resort to dual licensing.
at a guess an Air law exam, maybe a flight test and some agreed legal control over naughty boys and girls flying N reg in Europe.
i most certainly did not get the impression of an expensive dual licence requirement or that a BASA was not expected later than 12 months hence.
Pace
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Between Asia and South Africa
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My sources come from EASA , but are not official "yet".
Good news is P. Ky seems to be more open minded on how EU aviation has to change than Goudou ...
IAOPA relates the extension up to April 2015 in one of their latest news.
J
Good news is P. Ky seems to be more open minded on how EU aviation has to change than Goudou ...
IAOPA relates the extension up to April 2015 in one of their latest news.
J
