G450 Recurrent Training
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G450 Recurrent Training
Gulfstream training is insanely expensive ......any leads for a reasonable priced G450/550 recurrent would be highly appreciated !!
Cheers!
Cheers!
Well, if you are typed in a 450/550 you SHOULD be making a decent salary and the people you fly for can surely afford to pay for your rating.
Anyhow, I think that FSI are the source for the ratings, no?
f
Anyhow, I think that FSI are the source for the ratings, no?
f
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Well, if you are typed in a 450/550 you SHOULD be making a decent salary and the people you fly for can surely afford to pay for your rating
Mutt
Mutt,
Prob. double the price because the amount of pilots that needs to cover the operating costs are a fraction of the ones for a, say, 737 or A320.. I would think..
I don't pay my re-current costs, my company does, but I still think its ridiculously expensive!
Prob. double the price because the amount of pilots that needs to cover the operating costs are a fraction of the ones for a, say, 737 or A320.. I would think..
I don't pay my re-current costs, my company does, but I still think its ridiculously expensive!
Mutt,
Well it seems like it is the reality that the training organisations charge what they can get.
I can't imagine that a G450/550 Sim is cheap, then you have to pay the trainers, etc., also how many G450/550 pilots are there out there anyhow, its not like its an A320 or a B737 where there are thousands.
I wasn't trying to be a smartass, honestly.
Cheers,
f
Well it seems like it is the reality that the training organisations charge what they can get.
I can't imagine that a G450/550 Sim is cheap, then you have to pay the trainers, etc., also how many G450/550 pilots are there out there anyhow, its not like its an A320 or a B737 where there are thousands.
I wasn't trying to be a smartass, honestly.
Cheers,
f
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If you are a contractor trying to make a living on your dime, call CAE and tell them, they will work with you on the price. No way a 450/550 recurrent cost 35K... more like 22K.. and yes its crazy money!!! Never assume that the first price they give you is the firm cost. You ask 8 guys/girls in class what they paid and I am sure you will get 8 different prices.
I even have a friend who negotiated a GIV TYPE rating, not recurrent, with hotels included for 14K. So if you don't ask... you will pay the going rate!
No I do not pay for my recurrent training my company does, but I have a lot of friends who make their living contracting!
My two cents
J
I even have a friend who negotiated a GIV TYPE rating, not recurrent, with hotels included for 14K. So if you don't ask... you will pay the going rate!
No I do not pay for my recurrent training my company does, but I have a lot of friends who make their living contracting!
My two cents
J
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Start calling all the regional sales reps (not at the centre), make sure to tell them you live in a city in their area. Ask them for a deal, tell them you can come last minute. This has the best results. email Pilotsimbrokers and get a quote, this will give you a base line for what it should cost less than if it is a deal.
Still on topic, FSI does a much, much, much better job of it, and I've been to most of the CAE and FSI 450/550 centres in the world. As always, the chosen instructor and his mood are paramount.
True, you will be out an extra10,000 US with FSI, but its well spent as you will appear to be a professional once you find a real aircraft.
A little off topic, I always get that puzzled look when I hear pilots quaffing up the "It's not faaiiiirrrr" argument. I guess it's the delicious dichotomy of a pilots cold blooded reality mixing with their unbridled idealism.
I am curious as to why you are entertaining this, most all 450/550 operators these days provide initial training. Be careful of whom you are getting into bed with.
FR
Still on topic, FSI does a much, much, much better job of it, and I've been to most of the CAE and FSI 450/550 centres in the world. As always, the chosen instructor and his mood are paramount.
True, you will be out an extra10,000 US with FSI, but its well spent as you will appear to be a professional once you find a real aircraft.
A little off topic, I always get that puzzled look when I hear pilots quaffing up the "It's not faaiiiirrrr" argument. I guess it's the delicious dichotomy of a pilots cold blooded reality mixing with their unbridled idealism.
I am curious as to why you are entertaining this, most all 450/550 operators these days provide initial training. Be careful of whom you are getting into bed with.
FR
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G450/550 recurrent training
Hi,
I am planning to have a recurrent training with CEA Dubai. I just wonder the cost as it is some USD 21K. Does that mean per crew or per individual pilot. Flight Safety Intl here in Europe has a good deal, that if you loose your job, the next recurrent is only half price (this you can have it only once and your company has been client for FSI) I suppose CAE does not offer this option, but they are much cheaper than FSI.
If anybody need a partner for G450/550 recurrent training before end of August Please pm to me. (because as a crew, we always get the best price) For sure I try to get a descent job before it, but if I cannot. Regarding the new EASA rules I cannot even miss one single day or it will then pay much more...
I am planning to have a recurrent training with CEA Dubai. I just wonder the cost as it is some USD 21K. Does that mean per crew or per individual pilot. Flight Safety Intl here in Europe has a good deal, that if you loose your job, the next recurrent is only half price (this you can have it only once and your company has been client for FSI) I suppose CAE does not offer this option, but they are much cheaper than FSI.
If anybody need a partner for G450/550 recurrent training before end of August Please pm to me. (because as a crew, we always get the best price) For sure I try to get a descent job before it, but if I cannot. Regarding the new EASA rules I cannot even miss one single day or it will then pay much more...
Last edited by pupu; 5th May 2013 at 09:18.
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Are you sure about this? Here is an excerpt from AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) [validity and renewal of class and type ratings]:
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum of three training sessions in which the most important malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’, according to other valid ratings held.
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum of three training sessions in which the most important malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’, according to other valid ratings held.
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Thank you for your clear precise answer.
So AMC1 FCL 740 did stay unchanged during transition to EU OPS.
FCL.740.A Revalidation of class and type ratings — aeroplanes
(a) Revalidation of multi-engine class ratings and type ratings. For revalidation of multi-engine class ratings and type ratings, the applicant shall:
(1) pass a proficiency check in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part in the relevant class or type of aeroplane or an FSTD representing that class or type, within the 3 months immediately preceding the expiry date of the rating; and
(2) complete during the period of validity of the rating, at least:
(i) 10 route sectors as pilot of the relevant class or type of aeroplane; or
(ii) 1 route sector as pilot of the relevant class or type of aeroplane or FFS, flown with an examiner. This route sector may be flown during the proficiency check.
(3) A pilot working for a commercial air transport operator approved in accordance with the applicable air operations requirements who has passed the operators proficiency check combined with the proficiency check for the revalidation of the class or type rating shall be exempted from complying with the requirement in (2).
(4) The revalidation of an IR(A), if held, may be combined with a proficiency check for the revalidation of a class or type rating.EN 25.11.2011 Official Journal of the European Union L 311/37
(b) Revalidation of single-pilot single-engine class ratings.
(1) Single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings and TMG ratings. For revalidation of single-pilot single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings or TMG class ratings the applicant shall:
(i) within the 3 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency check in the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner; or
(ii) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, complete 12 hours of flight time in the relevant class, including:
— 6 hours as PIC,
— 12 take-offs and 12 landings, and
— a training flight of at least 1 hour with a flight instructor (FI) or a class rating instructor (CRI). Applicants shall be exempted from this flight if they have passed a class or type rating proficiency check or skill test in any other class or type of aeroplane.
(2) When applicants hold both a single-engine piston aeroplane-land class rating and a TMG rating, they may complete the requirements of (1) in either class, and achieve revalidation of both ratings.
(3) Single-pilot single-engine turbo-prop aeroplanes. For revalidation of single-engine turbo-prop class ratings applicants shall pass a proficiency check on the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner, within the 3 months preceding the expiry date of the rating.
(c) Applicants who fail to achieve a pass in all sections of a proficiency check before the expiry date of a class or type rating shall not exercise the privileges of that rating until a pass in the proficiency check has been achieved.
-----------------
AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) Validity and renewal of class and type ratings
RENEWAL OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS: REFRESHER TRAINING
(a) Paragraph (b)(1) of FCL.740 determines that if a class or type rating has
lapsed, the applicant shall take refresher training at an ATO. The
objective of the training is to reach the level of proficiency necessary to
safely operate the relevant type or class of aircraft. The amount of
refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis
by the ATO, taking into account the following factors:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should
evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an
FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months), the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum
of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum
of three training sessions in which the most important
malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo
the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case
of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’,
according to other valid ratings held.
(b) Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should
develop an individual training programme that should be based on the
initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where
the applicant has shown the greatest needs.
(c) After successful completion of the training, the ATO should give a
certificate, or other documental evidence that the training has been
successfully achieved to the applicant, to be submitted to the competent
authority when applying for the renewal. The certificate or documental
evidence needs to contain a description of the training programme
So AMC1 FCL 740 did stay unchanged during transition to EU OPS.
FCL.740.A Revalidation of class and type ratings — aeroplanes
(a) Revalidation of multi-engine class ratings and type ratings. For revalidation of multi-engine class ratings and type ratings, the applicant shall:
(1) pass a proficiency check in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part in the relevant class or type of aeroplane or an FSTD representing that class or type, within the 3 months immediately preceding the expiry date of the rating; and
(2) complete during the period of validity of the rating, at least:
(i) 10 route sectors as pilot of the relevant class or type of aeroplane; or
(ii) 1 route sector as pilot of the relevant class or type of aeroplane or FFS, flown with an examiner. This route sector may be flown during the proficiency check.
(3) A pilot working for a commercial air transport operator approved in accordance with the applicable air operations requirements who has passed the operators proficiency check combined with the proficiency check for the revalidation of the class or type rating shall be exempted from complying with the requirement in (2).
(4) The revalidation of an IR(A), if held, may be combined with a proficiency check for the revalidation of a class or type rating.EN 25.11.2011 Official Journal of the European Union L 311/37
(b) Revalidation of single-pilot single-engine class ratings.
(1) Single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings and TMG ratings. For revalidation of single-pilot single-engine piston aeroplane class ratings or TMG class ratings the applicant shall:
(i) within the 3 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, pass a proficiency check in the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner; or
(ii) within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of the rating, complete 12 hours of flight time in the relevant class, including:
— 6 hours as PIC,
— 12 take-offs and 12 landings, and
— a training flight of at least 1 hour with a flight instructor (FI) or a class rating instructor (CRI). Applicants shall be exempted from this flight if they have passed a class or type rating proficiency check or skill test in any other class or type of aeroplane.
(2) When applicants hold both a single-engine piston aeroplane-land class rating and a TMG rating, they may complete the requirements of (1) in either class, and achieve revalidation of both ratings.
(3) Single-pilot single-engine turbo-prop aeroplanes. For revalidation of single-engine turbo-prop class ratings applicants shall pass a proficiency check on the relevant class in accordance with Appendix 9 to this Part with an examiner, within the 3 months preceding the expiry date of the rating.
(c) Applicants who fail to achieve a pass in all sections of a proficiency check before the expiry date of a class or type rating shall not exercise the privileges of that rating until a pass in the proficiency check has been achieved.
-----------------
AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1) Validity and renewal of class and type ratings
RENEWAL OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS: REFRESHER TRAINING
(a) Paragraph (b)(1) of FCL.740 determines that if a class or type rating has
lapsed, the applicant shall take refresher training at an ATO. The
objective of the training is to reach the level of proficiency necessary to
safely operate the relevant type or class of aircraft. The amount of
refresher training needed should be determined on a case-by-case basis
by the ATO, taking into account the following factors:
(1) the experience of the applicant. To determine this, the ATO should
evaluate the pilot’s log book, and, if necessary, conduct a test in an
FSTD;
(2) the complexity of the aircraft;
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months), the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
(i) expiry shorter than 3 months: no supplementary requirements;
(ii) expiry longer than 3 months but shorter than 1 year: a minimum
of two training sessions;
(iii) expiry longer than 1 year but shorter than 3 years: a minimum
of three training sessions in which the most important
malfunctions in the available systems are covered;
(iv) expiry longer than 3 years: the applicant should again undergo
the training required for the initial issue of the rating or, in case
of helicopter, the training required for the ‘additional type issue’,
according to other valid ratings held.
(b) Once the ATO has determined the needs of the applicant, it should
develop an individual training programme that should be based on the
initial training for the issue of the rating and focus on the aspects where
the applicant has shown the greatest needs.
(c) After successful completion of the training, the ATO should give a
certificate, or other documental evidence that the training has been
successfully achieved to the applicant, to be submitted to the competent
authority when applying for the renewal. The certificate or documental
evidence needs to contain a description of the training programme
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I could still want be a bit careful with this matter and get my myself for the recurrent training before D day.
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months),the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
(3) the amount of time lapsed since the expiry of the validity period of
the rating. The amount of training needed to reach the desired level
of proficiency should increase with the time lapsed. In some cases,
after evaluating the pilot, and when the time lapsed is very limited
(less than 3 months),the ATO may even determine that no further
refresher training is necessary. When determining the needs of the
pilot, the following items can be taken into consideration:
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Hey Phil it’s Joe.
I recently asked for a recurrent quote. damn expensive.
I told them if they are willing to match the price they gave me in 2020.
NO RESPONSE yet.
Do you think if we go in together they will give us a better price?
are you FAA?
I recently asked for a recurrent quote. damn expensive.
I told them if they are willing to match the price they gave me in 2020.
NO RESPONSE yet.
Do you think if we go in together they will give us a better price?
are you FAA?
