UK permissions for non-EU com flights
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"out of date so called knowledge" = actual experience (in this case), and I stand by it. 
Afraid I know barely anything about air tests, old fruit. As for the rest... it rather speaks for itself, and I think I should add you to my ignore list. Toodle-pip
Afraid I know barely anything about air tests, old fruit. As for the rest... it rather speaks for itself, and I think I should add you to my ignore list. Toodle-pip
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It varies quite a lot from country to country. France (no surprise!) seems to be the worst. Some required a lot of information upfront, then are easy for each actual flight.
So we have a nice little database and can pretty well quote on anything, except flights within a single country. THEN they are very restrictive. So Nice to Paris a BIG no-no.
Interestingly, due to French and German re-interpretations of the EU rules, we stand in exactly the same position as an EU operator on a flight from say Berlin to Moscow, as the destination is outside the EU(!)
Having spoken to many EU ops departments, none of them were aware of this and so it will be interesting to see what the practise brings in the future. None I spoke to were sending requests to either the Germans or the French for flights from EU airports to destinations outside the EU, as "required" under the new interpretation. I suspect that if the Germans and the French really start to give them grief, there will be calls to the EU offices in each country to sort it out.
Not surprising, the nordic countries, Switzerland and Spain were very easy, after sending in a lot of information, the Italians are also 24 hours notice.
So we have a nice little database and can pretty well quote on anything, except flights within a single country. THEN they are very restrictive. So Nice to Paris a BIG no-no.
Interestingly, due to French and German re-interpretations of the EU rules, we stand in exactly the same position as an EU operator on a flight from say Berlin to Moscow, as the destination is outside the EU(!)
Having spoken to many EU ops departments, none of them were aware of this and so it will be interesting to see what the practise brings in the future. None I spoke to were sending requests to either the Germans or the French for flights from EU airports to destinations outside the EU, as "required" under the new interpretation. I suspect that if the Germans and the French really start to give them grief, there will be calls to the EU offices in each country to sort it out.
Not surprising, the nordic countries, Switzerland and Spain were very easy, after sending in a lot of information, the Italians are also 24 hours notice.
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Out of interest how does the no objections process work?
- who decides who qualifies as a rival?
- who contacts them for their opinion?
- what sort of timescale are they given to respond?
Facts appreciated please
- who decides who qualifies as a rival?
- who contacts them for their opinion?
- what sort of timescale are they given to respond?
Facts appreciated please
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That is one of the incredibly irritating things about the French.....YOU have to ask them. The French supplu you with a list and you need to contact them.
Exactly, what is a rival? First, they can then steal your hard-earned client and reap the benefit of your marketing.
So like one of the early contributors stated--instead of a newer, say Challenger, their client was more or less forced into a clapped out Falcon 50.
I thought the customer was the one who decided, but not entirely.
As it is readily available in English, here you have the German wording and present ruling, as of June 2012
Charter Flights
Air Carriers from Non-EEA Member States or air carriers from EEA member states wanting to conduct flights to third countries shall apply for an entry permission prior to commencing charter flights to and from Germany.
The application shall, in principle, be made by the air carrier actually performing the transport (operator).
Scope of the permission:
The permission may be requested for single flights or for a series of flights (chain of flights). The entry permission will be generally granted only if the state of registry of the air carrier submitting the application grants entry to German air carriers in the same way (reciprocity principle).
Application deadlines:
Applications for individual flights must be submitted to the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt in writing two full workdays prior to commencing the flight, at the latest.
Applications for permission for chains of flights (beginning from the 4th flight in the sequence) must be submitted not later than four weeks prior to commencing the first flight of the chain.
Entry is not permitted without an explicit entry permission.
Each change to flights already approved shall be presented to the LBA taking into account the respective time limits applying to the approval of the application.
In order to do this the following documents shall be submitted in German (or English):
Evidence that German air carriers are not prepared or in position to conduct the flight / flights (declaration of non-availability)
So very little difference for EU/non-EU operators when the flight is going to a non-EU destination.
Hope that helps
Exactly, what is a rival? First, they can then steal your hard-earned client and reap the benefit of your marketing.
So like one of the early contributors stated--instead of a newer, say Challenger, their client was more or less forced into a clapped out Falcon 50.
I thought the customer was the one who decided, but not entirely.
As it is readily available in English, here you have the German wording and present ruling, as of June 2012
Charter Flights
Air Carriers from Non-EEA Member States or air carriers from EEA member states wanting to conduct flights to third countries shall apply for an entry permission prior to commencing charter flights to and from Germany.
The application shall, in principle, be made by the air carrier actually performing the transport (operator).
Scope of the permission:
The permission may be requested for single flights or for a series of flights (chain of flights). The entry permission will be generally granted only if the state of registry of the air carrier submitting the application grants entry to German air carriers in the same way (reciprocity principle).
Application deadlines:
Applications for individual flights must be submitted to the Luftfahrt-Bundesamt in writing two full workdays prior to commencing the flight, at the latest.
Applications for permission for chains of flights (beginning from the 4th flight in the sequence) must be submitted not later than four weeks prior to commencing the first flight of the chain.
Entry is not permitted without an explicit entry permission.
Each change to flights already approved shall be presented to the LBA taking into account the respective time limits applying to the approval of the application.
In order to do this the following documents shall be submitted in German (or English):
- Application
- Charter Agreement
- Operating Licence including Air Operator Certificate with Operation Specifications (aircraft listing)
- Third Party Legal Liability Insurance
- Liability Insurance covering damage to persons, baggage, cargo and damage caused by delay
- Certificate of Registration
- Certificate of Airworthiness
- Noise Certificate
- Operating Permit Questionnaire (not required for EEA air carriers)
- Declaration concerning an authorized recipient in Germany (not required for EEA air carriers)
- Aviation Security Plan (for EEA air carriers a certificate of registration from the state of registry of the air carrier is sufficient)
Evidence that German air carriers are not prepared or in position to conduct the flight / flights (declaration of non-availability)
- List of German air carriers for passenger flights up to 50 pax
- List of German air carriers for passenger flights more than 50 pax
- List of German air carriers for cargo flights
So very little difference for EU/non-EU operators when the flight is going to a non-EU destination.
Hope that helps
