APD is in effect
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Mutt
Is Shannon considered to be in Northern Ireland? According to the APD form only long haul flights from Northern Ireland would be exempt. It would suit me fine if Shannon is included in the Northern Ireland exemption, but I am not clear on that just yet. I hope you can shed some light on this.
g450cpt
Is Shannon considered to be in Northern Ireland? According to the APD form only long haul flights from Northern Ireland would be exempt. It would suit me fine if Shannon is included in the Northern Ireland exemption, but I am not clear on that just yet. I hope you can shed some light on this.
g450cpt
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Shannon
Fats
Thanks for clearing that up. Didn't realize that Northern Ireland was considered UK and separate from Republic of Ireland. I was wondering why the APD tax guide only stipulated Northern Ireland. Well I will be off trying to educate myself more before I stick foot in mouth again.
g450cpt
Thanks for clearing that up. Didn't realize that Northern Ireland was considered UK and separate from Republic of Ireland. I was wondering why the APD tax guide only stipulated Northern Ireland. Well I will be off trying to educate myself more before I stick foot in mouth again.
g450cpt
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The Emerald Isle is no longer a part of the United Kingdom, so this tax doesn't apply, the Irish do have a similar tax for passengers, but its only around 2 Euro (??) and doesn't apply to corporate aviation.
Shannon is an excellent technical stop as its a quiet airport and rapid turnarounds are easy. You should try it.
Cldrvr, thanks for that, the fact remains that a flight this month can cost us 20,000 UK more than last month, we can't avoid this payment as thats where the passengers want to go, but if we can avoid the country during tech stops, then we might gain one ounce of personal satisfaction that we do have a means of protest
mutt
Shannon is an excellent technical stop as its a quiet airport and rapid turnarounds are easy. You should try it.
Cldrvr, thanks for that, the fact remains that a flight this month can cost us 20,000 UK more than last month, we can't avoid this payment as thats where the passengers want to go, but if we can avoid the country during tech stops, then we might gain one ounce of personal satisfaction that we do have a means of protest
mutt
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3.1.4 Transit passengers
Any APD liability applies to the journey as a whole. When an aircraft makes a stop 'en route' and passengers do not change aircraft then no additional duty becomes due for the leg of the journey immediately after the stop.
Any APD liability applies to the journey as a whole. When an aircraft makes a stop 'en route' and passengers do not change aircraft then no additional duty becomes due for the leg of the journey immediately after the stop.
The same applies to free upgrades if there is an element of entitlement or priority not enjoyed by other (standard class) passengers, for example in the case of 'perks' enjoyed by airline employees.
g450cpt, you can cut down your liability by measuring your seat pitch and counting the number of passenger seats, including the TOILETS, which I believe are certified passenger seats for takeoff and landing. If your capacity equals 19 passengers and the pitch is less than 40 inches, then you can avoid the highest level of duty.
Mutt
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Mutt, you are referring to pax originating from the UK, then you are right, the transit/tech stop is not the one that counts for ADP, the final destination is.
However you are originating from the Gulf, tech stop in the UK and then go on, that is considered a case B, and there is no APD for your pax.
The same applies to for example US carriers that use LHR as a hub, if the UK would charge APD on those pax, that would put LHR out of business pretty quickly as most if not all would switch to AMS. They put that loophole in explicitly to protect the hub status of LHR and I don't see that changing, ever.
However you are originating from the Gulf, tech stop in the UK and then go on, that is considered a case B, and there is no APD for your pax.
The same applies to for example US carriers that use LHR as a hub, if the UK would charge APD on those pax, that would put LHR out of business pretty quickly as most if not all would switch to AMS. They put that loophole in explicitly to protect the hub status of LHR and I don't see that changing, ever.
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entitlement or priority not enjoyed by other (standard class) passengers
(although the onboard service is often better 
)
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I'd love to see a little man/lady in HMRC trying to chase APD payment after seven days is up, from a multitude of visiting, non-domiciled business jets on say 'offshore' registers, the Russians, Nigerians etc.
If they come after the UK airports or FBOs because that's an easy option, they'll be fighting them in the courts, as they'll all tell them to get stuffed.
If anyone needs to act on behalf of an operator it's probably best to court the flight planning companies assistance rather than airports/FBOs/handlers.
The poor UK-based (and some EU) operators will be easy targets because they are easy to track down, in particular the AOC holders, but all the other non-EU 'private' operators with aircraft titled to some obscure Delaware solicitor's office or a post box in Bermuda, not a hope! Collecting from airlines is easy, collecting from business aviation operators a nightmare!
From the outset, the UK GA industry generally said it would cost more to administer than it will collect in revenues from the GA sector. The easy target operators will be dissadvantaged, the non-EU, more obscure operators will probably get away with not paying and if they try to penalise the handlers for not collecting it, there will be carnage in the courts.
I wonder if say a Russian jet that forgot to pay up on the last visit will be impounded on their next visit to London?
It's a complete joke. Let's have a revue in a year and just see how many non-domiciled visiting jets have paid up as required!
Just a disaster for the UK industry.
If they come after the UK airports or FBOs because that's an easy option, they'll be fighting them in the courts, as they'll all tell them to get stuffed.
If anyone needs to act on behalf of an operator it's probably best to court the flight planning companies assistance rather than airports/FBOs/handlers.
The poor UK-based (and some EU) operators will be easy targets because they are easy to track down, in particular the AOC holders, but all the other non-EU 'private' operators with aircraft titled to some obscure Delaware solicitor's office or a post box in Bermuda, not a hope! Collecting from airlines is easy, collecting from business aviation operators a nightmare!
From the outset, the UK GA industry generally said it would cost more to administer than it will collect in revenues from the GA sector. The easy target operators will be dissadvantaged, the non-EU, more obscure operators will probably get away with not paying and if they try to penalise the handlers for not collecting it, there will be carnage in the courts.
I wonder if say a Russian jet that forgot to pay up on the last visit will be impounded on their next visit to London?
It's a complete joke. Let's have a revue in a year and just see how many non-domiciled visiting jets have paid up as required!
Just a disaster for the UK industry.
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Let's have a revue in a year and just see how many non-domiciled visiting jets have paid up as required!
Perhaps we should have a review.
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APD
What a mess! However a good thread as I did not realise it applied to private aircraft as I misread the definition of a chargeable aircraft so will now register for our maximum of two flight from the UK a year! Thank you to the experts
Slightly off thread if you want a real challenge try registering for an operating account for a private aircraft under the EU emission trading scheme an absolute nightmare
Slightly off thread if you want a real challenge try registering for an operating account for a private aircraft under the EU emission trading scheme an absolute nightmare
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Navstar, tell your boss that we here kept him out of trouble and from receiving a fine. Free legal advise, however have him make a 100 quid donation to a charity on our behalf. Only the right thing to do......
CL
CL
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I'd love to see a little man/lady in HMRC trying to chase APD payment after seven days is up, from a multitude of visiting, non-domiciled business jets on say 'offshore' registers, the Russians, Nigerians etc.
Bit of a poor show really, effectively an honesty tax and for non UK operators they don't need to be all that honest as the UK ground handlers will pick up the tab!
Quite a minefield for UK Ficsal Rep's (& Admin Rep's)too, if the OPR cocks up or 'lacks honesty' the Rep get's hit financially instead.
No surprise handlers are not forthcoming to act for OPR's.
As a Fiscal Rep I'd be charging a pretty penny on top of the duty too!
Last edited by Phill; 14th Apr 2013 at 23:31.
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APD
Quite a minefield for UK Ficsal Rep's (& Admin Rep's)too, if the OPR cocks up or 'lacks honesty' the Rep get's hit financially instead.
No surprise handlers are not forthcoming to act for OPR's.
No surprise handlers are not forthcoming to act for OPR's.
I agree, it is also quite a minefield trying to find someone who will be an administrative rep. I don't mind paying the tax, but why didn't they make it simple? I pay the handler when I pay my other charges, the handler pays HMRS. Couldn't get any more simple than that. I'm not sure why I have to go around looking for someone with a UK address to be my rep when we already have the handlers. Bureaucracy at its finest.
g450cpt
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They don't need too, they just chase the FBO.
I always thought that HM juristical system is better than ours, but I start to get doubts...
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but why didn't they make it simple?
Collection should have been put to the airports who in turn place the responsibility on the handler along with collecting Landing, Nav & other PAX charges as most currently do.
Simples!
So in fact the FBO needs to check fiscal backgrounds etc of an operator ?
I have asked a few Q's of HMRC re the effect on FBO's and await their reply.
Stand down. Outbreak of common sense @HMRC: Handlers will get notice prior being made liable for FUTURE duty & it is NOT RETROSPECTIVE.
As you were!
Last edited by Phill; 17th Apr 2013 at 22:57.
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This doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon!
If anyone needs any help with a Rep I may be able to point you in the direction of some folk wot can help like!
PM me if you need any pointers.
If anyone needs any help with a Rep I may be able to point you in the direction of some folk wot can help like!
PM me if you need any pointers.
