Salaries...
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What kind of roster comes along with these figures? 
Must be a paradise market in UK regarding salaries...
Here: holiday charter A320 F/O pay is 60k gross. Plus per diems. So 85k for a Challenger F/O seems a lot on the continent!
"Joe le Taxi
Nonsense - If you are getting significantly less than these figures, gross, excluding per diems, then yes, you are being ripped off.
Globally Challenged
I would say £60-70k gross for a rated RHS CL604/5 is reasonable (particularly for the UK market)
"
Must be a paradise market in UK regarding salaries...
Here: holiday charter A320 F/O pay is 60k gross. Plus per diems. So 85k for a Challenger F/O seems a lot on the continent!
"Joe le Taxi
Nonsense - If you are getting significantly less than these figures, gross, excluding per diems, then yes, you are being ripped off.
Globally Challenged
I would say £60-70k gross for a rated RHS CL604/5 is reasonable (particularly for the UK market)
"
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Vistajet
It could be that they are type rating individuals and bonding them on the BD700? The type course is about $50,000 alone.
Therefore, some guys may be making a gamble that they take the job, see out the bond and jump ship for better money ASAP.
I'm not condoning it, but that would be my guess.
Therefore, some guys may be making a gamble that they take the job, see out the bond and jump ship for better money ASAP.
I'm not condoning it, but that would be my guess.
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Narrow Runway,
the offer I wrote about was far a already type rated and with years of experience on type.
I also heard what Above the Clouds said, again for an already type rated pilot.
And 30 Euro perdiem, not even enough for breakfast!
the offer I wrote about was far a already type rated and with years of experience on type.
I also heard what Above the Clouds said, again for an already type rated pilot.
And 30 Euro perdiem, not even enough for breakfast!
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We(the pilots[with tons of experience]) are desperate, of course. We have to pay our expenses, feed the family. Simply survive this horrible times.
And for the salary discussion: a CAPTAIN in Vista gets 86.000 € gross. New Malta contracts differ a bit. But from a friend on a Global, who was forced to sign a new maltese contract, I learned that at the end you get less then before on the Austrian/German/Swiss contracts. He left already
(after flying the Global for 4 months). What comes around goes around, right Vista? 
Of course assuming one is paying all required taxes, unemployment, retirement and health insurances. Somepeople still try to do the offshore deal inside europe - a very dangerous gamble in my opinion.
And for the salary discussion: a CAPTAIN in Vista gets 86.000 € gross. New Malta contracts differ a bit. But from a friend on a Global, who was forced to sign a new maltese contract, I learned that at the end you get less then before on the Austrian/German/Swiss contracts. He left already
(after flying the Global for 4 months). What comes around goes around, right Vista? Of course assuming one is paying all required taxes, unemployment, retirement and health insurances. Somepeople still try to do the offshore deal inside europe - a very dangerous gamble in my opinion.
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VJS.... So you mean that you can't pay your expenses and feed your family with 86000 EUR? Tell that supermarket single mom that you can't pay your bills with 86000 EUR and see what she says. Some people should not be allowed to handle money it seems. Ever heard about reducing your "expenses"? Perhaps that is exactly what your employer is doing so he/she can still keep you employed? Funny how life suddenly can seem positive once you just change your attitude. Ever tried?
Last edited by NBP; 6th Jul 2013 at 18:54.
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I used to walk into the salary reviews with latest Pro Pilot mag in my hands. Means very little.
First off the pilots are probably jacking up their salaries 30% as has been found to be true in most of the population pumping their salaries up.
Secondly, with the prevalence of hiring 'cheap' it queers the other end of the scale, where 1000 hour pilots working for dirt bring the average way down.
These days all that seems to matter to employers is a type and 500 hours pic. You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that type and PIC time.
First off the pilots are probably jacking up their salaries 30% as has been found to be true in most of the population pumping their salaries up.
Secondly, with the prevalence of hiring 'cheap' it queers the other end of the scale, where 1000 hour pilots working for dirt bring the average way down.
These days all that seems to matter to employers is a type and 500 hours pic. You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that type and PIC time.
Guest
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From Teldorserious
So funny...
If I may, I would also use what you say for the young ones with no hours but money filling their pockets (through mummy or the banks).
It then gives.
You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that money of yours.
You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that type and PIC time.
So funny...
If I may, I would also use what you say for the young ones with no hours but money filling their pockets (through mummy or the banks).
It then gives.
You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that money of yours.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0215; 6th Jul 2013 at 17:15.
I don´t know about other European countries...anybody from the UK or France step forward please...
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It's good to see that European pilots are so rich so they can afford to subsidize poor bizjet owners and airlines by buying their type ratings, paying for landings and line training, and accepting a fraction of one trip's catering bill as a monthly salary.
Unfortunately, in the US, we aren't nearly as well off as European pilots to be able to afford to do all that. So yes, the numbers in the Pro Pilot survey are in the ball park. I know a few operators that pay better than what's in the survey, but most fall in that range.
Unfortunately, in the US, we aren't nearly as well off as European pilots to be able to afford to do all that. So yes, the numbers in the Pro Pilot survey are in the ball park. I know a few operators that pay better than what's in the survey, but most fall in that range.
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@NBP
Your logic sounds like my management guys which earn propably the double
86000.-before tax and all deductions - and that's a lot.
I know that a single mom has to deal with less, she is most likely as well not away for 17 day+ in a row per month.
We could talk as well about qualification and experience, but it is useless to talk about that to a management guy type like you.
Your attitude seems to be perfect - call Nick(if it is not you
), he has a job for you
Your logic sounds like my management guys which earn propably the double
86000.-before tax and all deductions - and that's a lot.
I know that a single mom has to deal with less, she is most likely as well not away for 17 day+ in a row per month.
We could talk as well about qualification and experience, but it is useless to talk about that to a management guy type like you.
Your attitude seems to be perfect - call Nick(if it is not you
), he has a job for you
Last edited by vjs; 6th Jul 2013 at 19:37.
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VJS.... So you mean that you can't pay your expenses and feed your family with 86000 EUR?
Whats your salary then NBP and what do you do for it ?
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Bit of a dumb generalization there BeCareful
BTW, you still have the R 3 ?
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Soooo it's you?
Have to be more careful of what I say now
Yes, still have it, rode it today.
Back to the thread
Well, yes, there are some bad salaries going around in Europe, especially in Austria and Germany, but I also heard some bad in US.
So I find a bit of a generalization to say that here is bad and over there is heaven.
We are lucky.
Maybe yes, but it is also up to us to refuse underpaid jobs, unfortunately there is always someone that accepts, dragging down everybody else.
Have to be more careful of what I say now
Yes, still have it, rode it today.
Back to the thread
Well, yes, there are some bad salaries going around in Europe, especially in Austria and Germany, but I also heard some bad in US.
So I find a bit of a generalization to say that here is bad and over there is heaven.
We are lucky.
Maybe yes, but it is also up to us to refuse underpaid jobs, unfortunately there is always someone that accepts, dragging down everybody else.
These days all that seems to matter to employers is a type and 500 hours pic.
flydive1,
Let's just say, in the US a chief pilot would immediately show the door to a pilot with a TR and no experience, simply not done. In fact, "poaching" pilots by offering money and benefits have reappeared here as operators are bidding for experienced pilots. Inexperienced need not apply. I get around to a lot of departments in my current job, talk with chiefs and directors and get offers, so I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt.
GF
Let's just say, in the US a chief pilot would immediately show the door to a pilot with a TR and no experience, simply not done. In fact, "poaching" pilots by offering money and benefits have reappeared here as operators are bidding for experienced pilots. Inexperienced need not apply. I get around to a lot of departments in my current job, talk with chiefs and directors and get offers, so I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt.
GF
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I see the same in the industry as GF!
We only hire guys with 9,000+ hours and time in type! We do not hire FO's only Captains, for safety... Our flying schedule is too heavy to be a one man cockpit...
And we pay well above Pro Pilot rates to keep good quality guys!
We only hire guys with 9,000+ hours and time in type! We do not hire FO's only Captains, for safety... Our flying schedule is too heavy to be a one man cockpit...
And we pay well above Pro Pilot rates to keep good quality guys!
Last edited by noneya; 7th Jul 2013 at 04:50.