samedan briefing: a joke!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: france
Age: 51
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
samedan briefing: a joke!!
I i failed twice in a row the Samedan self briefing test on the airport website and now i have to wait for 24 hrs before another attempt!
what a freaking joke!! they make you go through those slides during the briefing and half of the questions they ask are not included in the briefing, there is a freaking ridiculous turnign radious chart that shows you the required radious to complete the turn that is just a joke to read, names of small villages! Who Freaking cares about the name of a village 3 miles on final from runway 3 - i still dont know the correct answer!! and it is absolutely a JOKE and idiotic to ask questions without providing you with the tools to figure out the answer!!!!
What are the dimensions of the FIZ: can someone of the geniouses that wrote the exam where it shown on those slides??
Good job samedan guys!!!!
You make me laugh and what pisses me off is that if you dont pass the test you can not go there!!!
safety is always the main concern but those questions are totally unrelated to reality!! they must have been written bzy some lawyer with a passion for aviation!!!!
what a freaking joke!! they make you go through those slides during the briefing and half of the questions they ask are not included in the briefing, there is a freaking ridiculous turnign radious chart that shows you the required radious to complete the turn that is just a joke to read, names of small villages! Who Freaking cares about the name of a village 3 miles on final from runway 3 - i still dont know the correct answer!! and it is absolutely a JOKE and idiotic to ask questions without providing you with the tools to figure out the answer!!!!
What are the dimensions of the FIZ: can someone of the geniouses that wrote the exam where it shown on those slides??
Good job samedan guys!!!!
You make me laugh and what pisses me off is that if you dont pass the test you can not go there!!!
safety is always the main concern but those questions are totally unrelated to reality!! they must have been written bzy some lawyer with a passion for aviation!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airport authorities are doing what they can to try to "firewall" creative trajectories into an airport.
The fact that you failed twice , should have trigger the bell, and using two computers is indeed the way to go.
At Cannes, we tried to implement a briefing , without a test, not because we could not do it, but just because it would be too binding in terms of responsibilities. Therefore our briefing is just what it is, a briefing, to date , on ly a handful of operator have been warned for non compliance, and a couple will be fined for hazardous operation, and violation of rules of air. ( Not for not following the briefing)
However, time is difficult for airport, a lot of pressure from everywhere in order to limit the activity, and numerous trade-offs have to be acted upon. ( cf Farnborough recent ban of Hawker 400).
The bare minimum respect for the people creating these briefings in order to keep their airport alive is certainly required and desirable.
I do always welcome criticism and new ideas, but you can trust me on this : every word is analysed, weighted, and other things that i cannot describe here
Be professional , do your homework, and come to Engadin, Cannes, LCY with the same pride as you walk through the terminal with your uniform, along with your ego friend..
The fact that you failed twice , should have trigger the bell, and using two computers is indeed the way to go.
At Cannes, we tried to implement a briefing , without a test, not because we could not do it, but just because it would be too binding in terms of responsibilities. Therefore our briefing is just what it is, a briefing, to date , on ly a handful of operator have been warned for non compliance, and a couple will be fined for hazardous operation, and violation of rules of air. ( Not for not following the briefing)
However, time is difficult for airport, a lot of pressure from everywhere in order to limit the activity, and numerous trade-offs have to be acted upon. ( cf Farnborough recent ban of Hawker 400).
The bare minimum respect for the people creating these briefings in order to keep their airport alive is certainly required and desirable.
I do always welcome criticism and new ideas, but you can trust me on this : every word is analysed, weighted, and other things that i cannot describe here
Be professional , do your homework, and come to Engadin, Cannes, LCY with the same pride as you walk through the terminal with your uniform, along with your ego friend..
Last edited by CL300; 15th Jan 2013 at 04:47.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sadly, the exam, well-meaning as it may be, fails to address the real causes of the two most recent tragic accidents at Samedan - poor planning, poor situational awareness, poor decision making, poor Captaincy, poor corporate oversight and poor attitude. The Authority have certainly addressed some issues with their test but there's still a big fat elephant in the room.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Authority have certainly addressed some issues with their test but there's still a big fat elephant in the room.
The only option to keep them away / safe them from themselves is closing the airport really, and no one would like that.
I keep saying I'd rather be unemployed then dead, and any owner or pax who would rather have a crew try to get into a VFR airport in IFR conditions than divert to Zurich is... well... you know.
Last edited by INNflight; 14th Jan 2013 at 16:19.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nd any owner or pax who would rather have a crew try to get into a VFR airport in IFR conditions than divert to Zurich is... well... you know.
In reality the test are just arse covering. Its a bloody wonder that not all airports in the EU are special training required airports.
Make crystal clear, easy to understand, easy to follow regulations, deregulate as much as possible and punish hard those who do not follow the rules.
Combine that with a better approach on training, make aircrew less liable to the will of employers (lifetime lasting licence, forbid PTF, make payed TR mandatory) and voila, there will be less accidents.
What we witness for the last few years is the opposite.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: france
Age: 51
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cldvr
cldvr
i truly hope i will never ever have to share a cockpit with you, some person who assumes that the only purpose of my post was to seek the right answers! I just dont understand the reason why i should take a test that it is not tailored to probe my knowledge of the area but to score 80% over questions about density altitude and radious of turn, within a 30 minute time!!! It reeks of lawyers miles away!!
and the way you adress your collegues, it says alot about what kind of person you are!!!
so please spare me your lousy comments in the future!!! and as far as sharing the airspace goes, well i dont think you own it!!!
for the rest of you, thanks for sharing your comment, i could have done as suggested by some of you, keep the page open while taking the test, but i am not used to cheat cos when i first took it i thought that it was safety oriented but i guess i was wrong! it does trick you!
i truly hope i will never ever have to share a cockpit with you, some person who assumes that the only purpose of my post was to seek the right answers! I just dont understand the reason why i should take a test that it is not tailored to probe my knowledge of the area but to score 80% over questions about density altitude and radious of turn, within a 30 minute time!!! It reeks of lawyers miles away!!
and the way you adress your collegues, it says alot about what kind of person you are!!!
so please spare me your lousy comments in the future!!! and as far as sharing the airspace goes, well i dont think you own it!!!
for the rest of you, thanks for sharing your comment, i could have done as suggested by some of you, keep the page open while taking the test, but i am not used to cheat cos when i first took it i thought that it was safety oriented but i guess i was wrong! it does trick you!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tracy Island
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I failed this test a few times, I also failed the Lugano test. It's just weird making you do the course on line then check your knowledge by asking you questions not in the course.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Just have multiple windows open with the various docs ready to roll. I had to use Firefox for the Samedan one. (I couldn't get it to work on Safari).
After a while you get the knack.
After a while you get the knack.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can only agree with the topic starter !
That briefing/test is a joke !
Failed it as well, managed to pass with the second attempt. If you pass or fail got nothing to do with you are a good/bad pilot !
Yes, under qualified wild west pilots did go there !
And Yes, under qualified wild west pilots will go there after passing this dumb brief/test !
To sum it up: Its a Joke !
That briefing/test is a joke !
Failed it as well, managed to pass with the second attempt. If you pass or fail got nothing to do with you are a good/bad pilot !
Yes, under qualified wild west pilots did go there !
And Yes, under qualified wild west pilots will go there after passing this dumb brief/test !
To sum it up: Its a Joke !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: europe
Age: 67
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the test is a JOKE
Test is a hoop that you need to jump through, exactly the same as the EASA ATPL exams.....they teach and test you skills that satisfy the lawyers...that is the purpose....it has nought to do with aviation.
For Samedan, if you don't have the gumption to open the web based training aids AND the test on the same computer you really don't have the skill set to be a pilot. Next you will be complaining about the EASA exams, and their irrelevance! Get a life you muppet, and stop complaining. Please don't fly into Samedan.
For Samedan, if you don't have the gumption to open the web based training aids AND the test on the same computer you really don't have the skill set to be a pilot. Next you will be complaining about the EASA exams, and their irrelevance! Get a life you muppet, and stop complaining. Please don't fly into Samedan.
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hilton, Sheraton or Marriott
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you can't pass the test you shouldn't be going there, as frustrating as it may seem.
Not mentioned in the brief but please also bear in mind that unless you've been in there in the last two years you may not unless it is CAVOK. The alternative is to have a 'safety pilot' on board who is familiar with the field.
Not mentioned in the brief but please also bear in mind that unless you've been in there in the last two years you may not unless it is CAVOK. The alternative is to have a 'safety pilot' on board who is familiar with the field.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think some of you are being a little hard on the OP. Many of the questions have a very questionable relevance to the job at hand, absorbing time I could more usefully employ in preparation. Infact, when I first went there, the trip was dumped on me the night before, so I was up late doing it. It would have been much better to have spent an extra 1/2 hour in the morning reading the briefs and pulling out local maps.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is the whole issue of these briefings. Too early or too late completion and they are not efficient. There is no 100% bulletproof tactics to implement them, if , like we do in GA/corporate/air taxi, we go to the place twice a year at max...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SAYE
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question 4 (difficult one) - What flight rules are applicable for LSZS?
Only maybe, the Falcon 100 pilot would have answered IFR. But then:
Baoab: better stay in warmer climes and in the shade !
Only maybe, the Falcon 100 pilot would have answered IFR. But then:
Baoab: better stay in warmer climes and in the shade !
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 15 DME
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have never been into Samedan or taken the test, but the approach certainly looks interesting.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...jkpt46FmviZX-Q
This one may help with the test. Good luck.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...jkpt46FmviZX-Q
This one may help with the test. Good luck.
Last edited by Richard Westnot; 15th Jan 2013 at 10:28. Reason: ADD
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: number 1 at the end of the bar
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEWARE !!
I would advocate NOT to follow what is shown in the above video !
Bank angle in excess of 45, GPWS alerts most of the way down f.app 21.
All looks very John Wayne to me.
I lost utter confidence from the very start, when it was apparent the PIC failed to bother to follow the taxi line, and then meandered forward waiting for his T/Off clearance. Wouldn't cut the mustard with my employers. !!
Not following valley on M.App.
Incorrect config on both approaches, and further GPWS calls on rwy 03 app as a result.
Incorrect position on final 03, more GPWS.
4 shiny whites below 500' ( massively unstable ), then the dirty dive with the inevitable "sink rate" call.
My company have strict minima and procedures for Samedan, including online testing and thorough simulator training.
The test is there for a reason, and 4HP is correct> If you cant pass it, you probably shouldnt be trying to go there in the first place !!
Quite frankly I am shocked, and feel sure Engadin would be too if they were to see it !!
Bank angle in excess of 45, GPWS alerts most of the way down f.app 21.
All looks very John Wayne to me.
I lost utter confidence from the very start, when it was apparent the PIC failed to bother to follow the taxi line, and then meandered forward waiting for his T/Off clearance. Wouldn't cut the mustard with my employers. !!
Not following valley on M.App.
Incorrect config on both approaches, and further GPWS calls on rwy 03 app as a result.
Incorrect position on final 03, more GPWS.
4 shiny whites below 500' ( massively unstable ), then the dirty dive with the inevitable "sink rate" call.
My company have strict minima and procedures for Samedan, including online testing and thorough simulator training.
The test is there for a reason, and 4HP is correct> If you cant pass it, you probably shouldnt be trying to go there in the first place !!
Quite frankly I am shocked, and feel sure Engadin would be too if they were to see it !!
Last edited by Scroll Lock; 15th Jan 2013 at 20:05.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London. UK
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This brief and test, and others like it are there to inform and check understanding. It may not be perfect however it behoves us all to embrace the spirit of what the airport authorities are trying to achieve.
I endeavour to do the brief and test on a quarterly basis and I have yet to visit Samedan.
If crew have issues with the test they should be a part of the solution and suggest improvements to the airport authorities not slag it off for a valid attempt to engage flight crew in the safety process.
And anyway, failing a test just means a review and more learning. Is that really such a chore?
I endeavour to do the brief and test on a quarterly basis and I have yet to visit Samedan.
If crew have issues with the test they should be a part of the solution and suggest improvements to the airport authorities not slag it off for a valid attempt to engage flight crew in the safety process.
And anyway, failing a test just means a review and more learning. Is that really such a chore?