Ridiculous prices
Thread Starter
Ridiculous prices
Howdy all.
We all know that the cost of corporate aviation extends well beyond the purchase of the aircraft. It seems the costs associated with operating a jet are charged at sky high rates because they seem to figure that if you can afford a private jet then you don't care about the costs.
I'm curious to hear of any charges you think were above and beyond the call of sanity and reasonableness.
For example
1. On departing the Maldives one morning we discovered we had emptied the box of tissues in the toilet. We asked the handling agent to grab a box for us. Off he went, came back ten minutes later. Cost for tissue box - $80 US. "$80 US??? You are joking!" I said tersely. His response? "Well, I had to go and get them from the office."
2. At a port in England, while tidying up the aircraft post flight, our garbage bag of rubbish was sitting on the steps. The friendly ground handler said "is that your rubbish lads? Give it here, I'll get rid of it for you." He walked some 20 metres and tossed it in a bin. Silly me thought it was just his way of helping out. No! On the bill - rubbish bag removal, $16 US.
3. Another Indian Ocean destination wanted $250 per passenger on both arrival and departure to go into their FBO. So $500 US each. All the other charges were still there - the handling fee, the toilet service fee, water, marshalling etc etc. But, with 5 pax, $2500 US just to go through their FBO office. I used the local airline instead who just bussed the pax to the terminal. Total cost, $700 US, including pax handling, toilet, water et al. To be honest, they weren't very good, but it was a saving of over $3000 US, so I deemed it a success.
Rod
We all know that the cost of corporate aviation extends well beyond the purchase of the aircraft. It seems the costs associated with operating a jet are charged at sky high rates because they seem to figure that if you can afford a private jet then you don't care about the costs.
I'm curious to hear of any charges you think were above and beyond the call of sanity and reasonableness.
For example
1. On departing the Maldives one morning we discovered we had emptied the box of tissues in the toilet. We asked the handling agent to grab a box for us. Off he went, came back ten minutes later. Cost for tissue box - $80 US. "$80 US??? You are joking!" I said tersely. His response? "Well, I had to go and get them from the office."
2. At a port in England, while tidying up the aircraft post flight, our garbage bag of rubbish was sitting on the steps. The friendly ground handler said "is that your rubbish lads? Give it here, I'll get rid of it for you." He walked some 20 metres and tossed it in a bin. Silly me thought it was just his way of helping out. No! On the bill - rubbish bag removal, $16 US.
3. Another Indian Ocean destination wanted $250 per passenger on both arrival and departure to go into their FBO. So $500 US each. All the other charges were still there - the handling fee, the toilet service fee, water, marshalling etc etc. But, with 5 pax, $2500 US just to go through their FBO office. I used the local airline instead who just bussed the pax to the terminal. Total cost, $700 US, including pax handling, toilet, water et al. To be honest, they weren't very good, but it was a saving of over $3000 US, so I deemed it a success.
Rod
$250 US in Las Vegas for the caterer (!) to pick up "international" trash because there was no "international" trash disposal at the US Customs building.
Other than that, business jet owners don't care, so I don't either.
GF
Other than that, business jet owners don't care, so I don't either.
GF
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It seems the costs associated with operating a jet are charged at sky high rates because they seem to figure that if you can afford a private jet then you don't care about the costs.
But there are a few providers who cater for those who actually care about costs. In this day and age, they are prospering
Follow the fractionals and charter outfits. They care about costs.
And not all private and corporate jet owners are beyond caring about costs. In fact many of them got where they are because they do.
westhawk
And not all private and corporate jet owners are beyond caring about costs. In fact many of them got where they are because they do.
westhawk
Galaxy, if I had that "I dont care" attitude towards costs I'd be out of a job. In today's economy, we all have a due care as professional pilots to keep costs within reason.
As Westhawk says, some of our bosses have got where they are by giving a damn.
As Westhawk says, some of our bosses have got where they are by giving a damn.
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And not all private and corporate jet owners are beyond caring about costs. In fact many of them got where they are because they do.
(Just kidding, we do not use cheques any more in this part of the world...)
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Ģ80 quoted to fill our Thermos flask with coffee (about a litre). I decline to say where lest the Mafia send the boys round...
Ģ25 for an UK FBO to book two day rooms; a local telephone call.
I could go on but the fact is we have a responsiblity to watch the costs for the owners/operators and also feed back our displeasure to the FBO's concerned. This rip-of culture will only change if enough people say something at the time.
Ģ25 for an UK FBO to book two day rooms; a local telephone call.
I could go on but the fact is we have a responsiblity to watch the costs for the owners/operators and also feed back our displeasure to the FBO's concerned. This rip-of culture will only change if enough people say something at the time.
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Totally agree that change will only come through action from us. There are, I am sure, some owners who don't care - but I suspect they are the minority. We are paid, IMO, to run the aircraft as economically as possible. We have a standard handling quote form now that is sent to FBO's, if possible at least two at destination, which list everything we would need. That way we can at least pick the best value and have written evidence of costs that can and can not be charged.
Many FBO's now are seriously beyond belief - it's not my money I am spending, though it feels personal that some take such liberty and take the attitude that it's your problem if you complain.
Many FBO's now are seriously beyond belief - it's not my money I am spending, though it feels personal that some take such liberty and take the attitude that it's your problem if you complain.
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This summer flight to EYKA, Lithuania, we get catering for 5 persons (nothing special, just slices of meet, salami, cheese, vegetable and fruits,just snacks),no drinks and alko - for slightly less then 700 EUR, i mean in Munich or Nice i get same catering box for max 300 EUR... 
In Nice for same service - 1st day 80 EUR, 2nd day - 800 EUR, agent said that they mistakenly putted extra 0!
On total amount, which should be paid, it is quite difficult to figure out this kind of mistakes...
In Nice for same service - 1st day 80 EUR, 2nd day - 800 EUR, agent said that they mistakenly putted extra 0!
On total amount, which should be paid, it is quite difficult to figure out this kind of mistakes...
Last edited by Harmattann; 29th Dec 2012 at 11:00.
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Had snow which had stuck solid to the wings as ice from the roots to maybe 10 feet out plus the tail which was too high to see properly.
This was at Eindhoven.
I was later told that 220 liters was the minimum they will despense so that it was we got with a bill for 1000 Euros
Pace
This was at Eindhoven.
I was later told that 220 liters was the minimum they will despense so that it was we got with a bill for 1000 Euros
Pace
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Nice to see some drivers acting like family towards the jet owners by taking a stand against the rip-offs. Opportunistic rip-offs are not just limited at biz-jet operators, it's everywhere.
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During a fuel-stop in Anchorage (in the middle of a snow storm) the girls in the back asked for a bag of ice. The handler arrived with a small bag of ice and an invoice for $ 75. Both ejected from the aircraft.
Then there was the crooked Irishman at the Atlantic FBO at LAX (who used to set up colonic irrigations for the hosties) who produced a catering invoice for $ 48,000 for 9 pax (2 services). What a circus!
Then there was the crooked Irishman at the Atlantic FBO at LAX (who used to set up colonic irrigations for the hosties) who produced a catering invoice for $ 48,000 for 9 pax (2 services). What a circus!
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ahhh, the subject I love....
Well, how do you change a handler when he has a monopoly ?
Going where the frax goes does sometimes not work either: they (the handler) are usually only interrested in the bigger client. Happened to me twice in Paris with Signature, they lost my business after almost 20 years (used to be Transair then). I moved to Jetex and shortly after the bloody Netjets turned up there. At least they have 2 seperate entries/exits there.... Paris is a good place to see a cartell working IMO, Iīve asked all of them bout the prices and with on exemption they were within about 30 ...
The ripoff in Russia/KAZ/ and all the tans one canīt avoid. They only thing there is really really check your invoices, they try to sell you stuff one never ordered or had.
Well, how do you change a handler when he has a monopoly ?
Going where the frax goes does sometimes not work either: they (the handler) are usually only interrested in the bigger client. Happened to me twice in Paris with Signature, they lost my business after almost 20 years (used to be Transair then). I moved to Jetex and shortly after the bloody Netjets turned up there. At least they have 2 seperate entries/exits there.... Paris is a good place to see a cartell working IMO, Iīve asked all of them bout the prices and with on exemption they were within about 30 ...
The ripoff in Russia/KAZ/ and all the tans one canīt avoid. They only thing there is really really check your invoices, they try to sell you stuff one never ordered or had.
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In today's economy, we all have a due care as professional pilots to keep costs within reason.
Mutt
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Maldives
Sad to hear that someone charged you 80$ for a box of tissue, that is a tottal rip off, since one should cost 5-10$ here in maldives, although i do agree that some services are rather expensive here in the maldives 
Cheers
Thumbwax
Cheers
Thumbwax
Maybe, I needed to post a "sarcasm" thingie. My office is just as concerned about costs, but keep things in proportion. My example, we'd come empty from Malaga to Vegas to pick-up. Fuel cost: about $36,000! Percentage of "handling" is less than 1%. And that's just using the fuel cost. Face it, most of these bills sound outrageous, until compared to the cost of the operation, in toto
GF
GF
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Face it, most of these bills sound outrageous, until compared to the cost of the operation, in toto
One day in Istanbul, the handling agent brought the catering and coffee we had ordered to the plane. Then he got a bag of ice cubes out of his van: "Do you also need ice?"
I asked: "How much?" "100 Euros" he said. "In this case, we don't need ice." "Just take it" he said to me, "today it comes for free" (it's gonna melt anyway on the way back to the office...)
Thread Starter
As the originator of this post I was quite surprised at Galaxy Flyer's comment that boss don't care so he don't care. But I am very heartened to hear that other bosses and therefore other operators do care.
I certainly know my boss does care. I am paid to operate his aeroplane efficiently, safely and at reasonable cost. I go through all the receipts very carefully - at this stage I cannot do much about outrageous costs, but I go out of my way to ensure there are not charges slipped in for services we did not receive, or that there are no extra zeros "accidentally" added. I just hate corporate thievery - so sometimes its more about getting one back at the FBO than actually saving the money.
Some of the posts here about "doing something about it" have given me food for thought. In fact next time we go into the port in England where we were charged $16 US to throw a rubbish bag in the bin, I will write to the manager (who is a great guy) and tell him we won't be using his FBO due to charges such as this. Sure, the next FBO will probably charge the same, but then I will tell them that they have lost my business as well - they will get the message soon.
I certainly know my boss does care. I am paid to operate his aeroplane efficiently, safely and at reasonable cost. I go through all the receipts very carefully - at this stage I cannot do much about outrageous costs, but I go out of my way to ensure there are not charges slipped in for services we did not receive, or that there are no extra zeros "accidentally" added. I just hate corporate thievery - so sometimes its more about getting one back at the FBO than actually saving the money.
Some of the posts here about "doing something about it" have given me food for thought. In fact next time we go into the port in England where we were charged $16 US to throw a rubbish bag in the bin, I will write to the manager (who is a great guy) and tell him we won't be using his FBO due to charges such as this. Sure, the next FBO will probably charge the same, but then I will tell them that they have lost my business as well - they will get the message soon.
If flight crew are looking out for their employer they are looking after themselves. A good enough reason to do what you can to limit the negative effect opportunistic price gouging has wherever possible in my view. Pay it when there is no choice but use what discretionary power you have to maximum effect.
Pay an extra $100 for an FBO to operate beyond normal hours? No problem, fair is fair. Pay an invoice full of nickle and dime ups and extras? Sometimes it's necessary and sometimes reasonable accommodations can be reached. Always let it be known that you appreciate good service and that your continued good patronage is recognition of that fact. Where there is no better choices, sometimes poor business practices on the part of opportunistic business entities must be accepted as a cost of doing business. Any corporate pilot having a decent working relationship with the boss will figure out what the parameters of their own influence and discretion in short order.
I've seen and worked with guys who take the money saving thing to a ridiculous and counter-productive extreme and also with guys who carelessly blow company money as though they were punishing the boss for being rich.
Discretion...
westhawk
Pay an extra $100 for an FBO to operate beyond normal hours? No problem, fair is fair. Pay an invoice full of nickle and dime ups and extras? Sometimes it's necessary and sometimes reasonable accommodations can be reached. Always let it be known that you appreciate good service and that your continued good patronage is recognition of that fact. Where there is no better choices, sometimes poor business practices on the part of opportunistic business entities must be accepted as a cost of doing business. Any corporate pilot having a decent working relationship with the boss will figure out what the parameters of their own influence and discretion in short order.
I've seen and worked with guys who take the money saving thing to a ridiculous and counter-productive extreme and also with guys who carelessly blow company money as though they were punishing the boss for being rich.
Discretion...
westhawk
Last edited by westhawk; 29th Dec 2012 at 21:03.