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ACL lights on when taxiing or when lining up?

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ACL lights on when taxiing or when lining up?

Old 6th Aug 2012, 17:46
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ACL lights on when taxiing or when lining up?

I fly a C525 so sizewise we are closer to GA piston aircraft than to the heavy jets (airbus etc.). Our SOP calls for turning on the anti-collision lights when lining up or crossing the runway and not before. I observe the same procedure for larger jets but see that GA piston aircraft always have turned the anti-collision lights, which particularly strikes me because we often fly to smaller airfield where we are the only jet.

Im interested to know if all small jets operator have the same acl policy or if some of the also have their acl turned on all the time; i.e also when taxiing on the apron.

Cheers

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Old 6th Aug 2012, 17:58
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Anti Collision (red) on at start up.
White wing tip strobes (and landing lights) on entering runway / off exiting runway AND on when crossing an active runway.

Used that procedure (as SOP) when flying a heavy jet and now when flying my toy piston.

BD

Last edited by beerdrinker; 6th Aug 2012 at 17:59.
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Old 6th Aug 2012, 18:07
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Cheesy aide-memoire, when lining up: lights (strobes), camera (transponder), action (apply throttle).
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Old 6th Aug 2012, 21:22
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Im interested to know if all small jets operator have the same acl policy or if some of the also have their acl turned on all the time; i.e also when taxiing on the apron.
Same here. Anti-collision lights on when entering a runway and off when leaving. And off in clouds at night (for my benefit!).

...but see that GA piston aircraft always have turned the anti-collision lights...
This is due to the fact that many Piper singles and twins (including the ones of the flying school where I instruct besides flying) only have strobe lights and nothing else. And since you are required to show some lights before starting your propeller, you only got those to switch on.
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Old 7th Aug 2012, 18:03
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When cleared to "Line Up and Wait", do we turn on the Landing lights as well?
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Old 7th Aug 2012, 18:10
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No we don't. Landing lights on t/o clearance obtained.
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Old 7th Aug 2012, 19:50
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All lights on when cleared to enter/cross a runway...... didn't help when a PIA B747 misheard a clearance and taxied on to the runway from the opposite side, he was totally oblivious to the fact that we even existed.

So now I want [email protected] installed

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Old 7th Aug 2012, 20:16
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Matt/Mongo, either of those are valid SOPs. Just don't confuse a switch position as confirmation of a clearance!
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Old 7th Aug 2012, 20:37
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After receiving the Line Up and Wait clearance, I've noticed a few pilots turn on their strobes when they cross the shoulder of the RWY (solid white line).
Their logic is that the RWY area starts from when inside of the white line, and ends when you're outside of it.

Last edited by matthewgamm; 7th Aug 2012 at 20:39.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 02:14
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To U.S. pilots who are accustomed to stobes on when entering the rwy and then landing lights on to signify when T/O clearance is received, be advised that most overseas operators don't use this "Landing light = on the T/O roll" system to communicate to others down the runway they are moving. Most overseas operators swith on all lights when cleared to line up and wait, including the landing lights, the same way they do when cleared for T/O. This can be disconcerting for those who are be used to the other system and may be crossing the same runway downfield. The initial thought is that aircraft is rolling, clearance or not.

To those who aren't used to what now is pretty much standard in the U.S., this Landing light = T/O clearance was recommended because studies done during a focus on runway incursions/accidents found that the wash of landing lights from a stationary aircraft sitting on the runway really doesn't make it much more visible to landing aircraft behind and above, the strobes do. On the other hand, the landing light is brightly visible down the runway to the pilot sitting on the ground in another aircraft who may or may not have been given a crossing clearance, and the movement (wiggling) of the light from that vantage point as it rolls easily noticed. Switching the landing light on with T/O clearance is also a visual signal to the tower that the correct aircraft is responding to the T/O clearance over the radio.

Much like the taxi light is used to communicate movement on the ground (On when moving, OFF when stationary), the landing light is used to signal movement/actually Taking off.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 07:44
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There are NO "light signals" to let others know your intentions. Lights are used on entering a runway purely to make youself visible. Landing lights are great but most have a time limitation unless they have the pulse mod. Strobes are not used on the movement areas of the airport to avoid visual impairment of other users. There is no aviation authority that teaches light signal communication except in abnormal operations or in an emergency.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 07:50
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What then is the correct procedure to when to turn on the strobes - when vacating the taxiway area to enter the RWY, or when crossing the RWY shoulder (solid white line)?
Similarly, should the landing lights be turned on after receiving the T/O clearance, or after the Line Up & Wait clearance.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 09:14
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Regarding the original question about white anti-collision (strobe) lights during taxi - some airplanes does not have the beacon (red) light so the procedure is to use the strobe lights instead of missing beacon. This means the strobe light on before engine start-up and off after shutdown. The only exceptions are when taxiing near the other airplane especially during night and when in clouds or fog.

Vres

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Old 8th Aug 2012, 10:27
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most overseas operators don't use this "Landing light = on the T/O roll"
A lot of euro operators do use this practice, but I know some of the majors dont eg BA. Personally I think it is good practice, not least as an aide memoir that we have been cleared for T/O. The problem comes when flying with someone who flicks the big lights on when just cleared line up, so I look and think we have been cleared for T/O.

I would like to see big lights=T/O become officially standard practice.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 12:10
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There are NO "light signals" to let others know your intentions. Lights are used on entering a runway purely to make youself visible. Landing lights are great but most have a time limitation unless they have the pulse mod. Strobes are not used on the movement areas of the airport to avoid visual impairment of other users. There is no aviation authority that teaches light signal communication except in abnormal operations or in an emergency.
You're incorrect. The FAA issued it's first Advisory Circular on the issue of using the landing light as a signal to indicate T/O clearance back in 2001 with AC 120-74, revised in 2003 with AC 120-74A, included recommendation as part of the AIM (4-3-23) a few months ago, and issued AC 120-74B last week on 30 July.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...%20120-74B.pdf

and one of the FAA studies on the issue..

http://www.tc.faa.gov/acb300/techrep...T-TN-05-18.pdf

Athough not mandatory, these practices have been incorporated into many operators' SOPs because of the ACs and the anti-incursion effort that began in the 90s. That goes for the taxi light-ON for movement/intent to move and OFF when stopped/stopping as well.

Last edited by PukinDog; 8th Aug 2012 at 12:15.
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Old 8th Aug 2012, 12:38
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Joe le Taxi

A lot of euro operators do use this practice, but I know some of the majors dont eg BA. Personally I think it is good practice, not least as an aide memoir that we have been cleared for T/O. The problem comes when flying with someone who flicks the big lights on when just cleared line up, so I look and think we have been cleared for T/O.

I would like to see big lights=T/O become officially standard practice.
I agree, and it makes sense. A landing light time limitation doesn't come into play since you're using it for less time than if you switch it on entering for a line up and wait.

The taxi light procedure is extremely helpful to everyone as well, especially at crazy layout, busy airports like O'Hare during a push with aircraft being issued instructions hold short for each other etc. It helps make clear who understands what not only to each other but the ground controller looking out the cab window as well.

Taxi light OFF when not moving is also good SOP for the common scenario where one aircraft is on short final while another is taxiing with a clearance to stop at the holding point short of the runway while they 2 are on different frequencies (Twr and Grd). If the landing aircraft sees the taxi light switch off on the aircraft approaching the hold point, he's a lot more sure he's stopping than if that aircraft pulls up and lets his taxi light blaze while waiting for you to land. It creates a distraction when eyes are better spent looking down the runway to where other hazards may be. Signaling intent and condition in such an easy way isn't a bad thing, and raises awareness.

Last edited by PukinDog; 8th Aug 2012 at 12:41.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 06:36
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PukinDog

Thank you for correcting me, I also agree with the practice, I should have made it more clear that I was refering to mandatory practices rather than advisory or recommended.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 16:04
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We have been having this discussion in the company for a while.
The FAA talks about landing lights, but don't make a difference between pulse lights or the Full ON mode.
This because the study is mainly for airliners, and normally boeing and airbus don't have the Pulse light position on the landing lights.
We use Pulse lights for line-up and then full on when we get the take-off clearance.


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