Pilots Assistant/Safety Pilot
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Pilots Assistant/Safety Pilot
Hi,
I'm a foreign licensed CPL, soon to be converting to the JAA licence I was wanting to know whether there are any single pilot aircraft operators who wouldn't mind taking on a Pilots assistant/safety Pilot. I guess the types of aircraft would be types like CJs, Kingairs, multi pistons etc.. would like to gain some experience and I am aware you can't log the time but it would be valuable learning for me.
You can PM me
Thanks
Davjet
I'm a foreign licensed CPL, soon to be converting to the JAA licence I was wanting to know whether there are any single pilot aircraft operators who wouldn't mind taking on a Pilots assistant/safety Pilot. I guess the types of aircraft would be types like CJs, Kingairs, multi pistons etc.. would like to gain some experience and I am aware you can't log the time but it would be valuable learning for me.
You can PM me
Thanks
Davjet
Last edited by Davjet; 26th Jul 2012 at 19:30.
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Let me get this straight, you post on a professional pilots forum offering to work for free and want us to help you find a position so you can erode our T&C's a bit more.
Good luck
Good luck
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Well, could be read like that.
Or could be like:
"Do you fly a Kingair single pilot? Can I sit on the right to get a taste of how it works?"
Would not take anybody's job as second pilot not required and wanted.
Of course would also be unable to logg hours.
Or could be like:
"Do you fly a Kingair single pilot? Can I sit on the right to get a taste of how it works?"
Would not take anybody's job as second pilot not required and wanted.
Of course would also be unable to logg hours.
Seems a fair enough request to me - PA is not generally a paid position so not exactly stealing the food from a pilots family is it?
The only outfit I know that uses PAs on their kingairs uses their full-time salaried / rated pilots from other fleets so no use to you really.
Best of luck with your search.
The only outfit I know that uses PAs on their kingairs uses their full-time salaried / rated pilots from other fleets so no use to you really.
Best of luck with your search.
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It would have to be a private/corporate gig.
AOC operations in the UK are now banned from using "safety pilots" (not all are respecting the ban, but I reckon the CAA will get fed up soon and start enforcing this), and much of the rest of Europe does not allow single-crew CAT operations anyway.
"... second pilot not required and wanted."
Not always the case. Many clients demand two crew. Putting a "safety pilot" in the right seat is not only dishonest to the customer, possibly even invalidating liability insurance if the passengers are employees of the organisation that pays, but it takes away an FO's job, and undercuts those companies that fly the same aircraft two-crew with rated, trained pilots in the right seat who can log the time.
AOC operations in the UK are now banned from using "safety pilots" (not all are respecting the ban, but I reckon the CAA will get fed up soon and start enforcing this), and much of the rest of Europe does not allow single-crew CAT operations anyway.
"... second pilot not required and wanted."
Not always the case. Many clients demand two crew. Putting a "safety pilot" in the right seat is not only dishonest to the customer, possibly even invalidating liability insurance if the passengers are employees of the organisation that pays, but it takes away an FO's job, and undercuts those companies that fly the same aircraft two-crew with rated, trained pilots in the right seat who can log the time.
Last edited by Flaymy; 27th Jul 2012 at 10:57.
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I agree having a SANDBAG in the right seat can be more of a liability especially if they are doing something rather than nothing.
What they are doing has to be checked and double checked thus adding work load for the Captain rather than reducing it.
Often these novices are charged out to the customer at full FO rates while not costing the operator a thing and hence a money earner for the unscrupulous operator.
It is deceptive to the customer as they believe the guy in the right seat wearing the white shirt and three bars could land them if the Captain dropped dead and in many instances they could not!!
But I have sympathy for the low houred guy desperate to build time and the right time.
They are held out of positions because they do not meet the hours but cannot get the hours because no one will take them on.
Aircraft like twins and turboprops and the small single pilots jets and they cannot log the hours which is Wrong!
Pace
What they are doing has to be checked and double checked thus adding work load for the Captain rather than reducing it.
Often these novices are charged out to the customer at full FO rates while not costing the operator a thing and hence a money earner for the unscrupulous operator.
It is deceptive to the customer as they believe the guy in the right seat wearing the white shirt and three bars could land them if the Captain dropped dead and in many instances they could not!!
But I have sympathy for the low houred guy desperate to build time and the right time.
They are held out of positions because they do not meet the hours but cannot get the hours because no one will take them on.
Aircraft like twins and turboprops and the small single pilots jets and they cannot log the hours which is Wrong!
Pace
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I agree with Flaymy. Additionally, those operators who are not respecting the ban may not be aware that they are invalidating their own aircraft insurance by operating the aircraft on an AOC with unqualified crew.
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Don Coyote
But how do those guys with very low hours get qualified? More and more now the insurance companies dictate the required hours for an FO which can be high.
I am not JAA but FAA! What happens if the aircraft is a King Air or CJ1/2 can the FO log the hours in a single pilot aircraft under JAA?
With my own aircraft which is a two crew jet and N reg I cannot use a particular FO who is very low time, has an SIC but has almost zero jet time.
The insurance stipulates jet time for the FO and he fails to get even close!
If that is across the board how on Earth can the almost zero jet time pilot build the hours in corporate ops?
Pace
But how do those guys with very low hours get qualified? More and more now the insurance companies dictate the required hours for an FO which can be high.
I am not JAA but FAA! What happens if the aircraft is a King Air or CJ1/2 can the FO log the hours in a single pilot aircraft under JAA?
With my own aircraft which is a two crew jet and N reg I cannot use a particular FO who is very low time, has an SIC but has almost zero jet time.
The insurance stipulates jet time for the FO and he fails to get even close!
If that is across the board how on Earth can the almost zero jet time pilot build the hours in corporate ops?
Pace
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No such thing as SIC in Euroland. So that won't be possible anyway come the change even if they have a FAA ticket as there EASA ticket will be a full PIC type rating.
Insurance is in the hands of the operator if they can't get the FO with the required hours they just have to pay the upgrade.
They can log copilot hours as long as its under a AOC and there SOPS have been approved as muticrew. They can't though get a ATPL until they get a JAR25 multicrew type rating LST done.
Insurance is in the hands of the operator if they can't get the FO with the required hours they just have to pay the upgrade.
They can log copilot hours as long as its under a AOC and there SOPS have been approved as muticrew. They can't though get a ATPL until they get a JAR25 multicrew type rating LST done.
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No such thing as SIC in Euroland. So that won't be possible anyway come the change even if they have a FAA ticket as there EASA ticket will be a full PIC type rating.
Not sure you are quite correct there! Should all that rubbish actually come into being in 2016 EASA will recognize 3 rd country ratings an SIC is a valid rating on N reg.
So while EASA may require equivalent licences they do not require equivalent ratings.
Pace
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No such thing as SIC in Euroland. So that won't be possible anyway come the change even if they have a FAA ticket as there EASA ticket will be a full PIC type rating.
