European Challenger 605 Captain Salary
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Uk
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
European Challenger 605 Captain Salary
Hi Guys. Just starting negotiations for a pay rise. Was thinking £100,000 is a fair salary for LHS 200 days contracted per year on a CL605 doing full charter (aeroplane doing 1000 hours per year). Any thoughts?
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: If this is Tuesday, it must be?
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it's 100% charter, no chance. You'll get that from a private owner who wants to look after his crew, but a company that's trying to make money in this market will be looking to keep you below 90.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
How is the £100K broken up? Is that inclusive of pension, health care and allowances?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You might find a CL605 owner who likes to look after the crew, while also using his a/c for charters. I know a couple of them.
When you have your huge paycheck don't forget to come by Ops and drop off a tin of biscuits occasionally...
Best of luck with the negotiations!!
When you have your huge paycheck don't forget to come by Ops and drop off a tin of biscuits occasionally...
Best of luck with the negotiations!!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stairways to heaven
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The high salaries are long gone. You can get a very experience LH for E 60,000 these days.
A buddy of mine just accepted that and he had 8,000h of which 4,000 on type.
A buddy of mine just accepted that and he had 8,000h of which 4,000 on type.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the idea that we can enhance the pay level by refusing to work for less than we consider to be a fair rate. Trouble is that the next guy who needs to pay his rent and feed the kids too will accept, and I don't blame him, he will jump ship though as soon as he gets a better offer.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love the idea that we can enhance the pay level by refusing to work for less than we consider to be a fair rate. Trouble is that the next guy who needs to pay his rent and feed the kids too will accept, and I don't blame him, he will jump ship though as soon as he gets a better offer.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.
Lets face it, if you have a home to keep together you have to take what's on offer, the owners/operators that want to put us on a financial diet now WILL pay later.
Yes, we can just accept whatever offer we get, but then we must shut up and not complain about degrading standards.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Errr? I did say a pilot who needs to eat and keep a lid over his/family's head definately NOT one who can pay to fly. We are in a recession, the employers have the upper hand, this won't always be the case.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Same thing, do you need to fly to feed your family? The only job available is Ryanair(as an example) but you have to pay? Well you borrow the money, pay the rating and start to fly and get an income.
I really do not think that all the pilots that pay have already the money in their pocket(or Daddy).
Same as they probably did to get their licenses in the first place.
Yes, is not the same market as pre 2008, but still we have to try to do something for us.
I really do not think that all the pilots that pay have already the money in their pocket(or Daddy).
Same as they probably did to get their licenses in the first place.
Yes, is not the same market as pre 2008, but still we have to try to do something for us.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it the same thing that I have to pay? I am freelance, I have to pay for my recurrent every year, the recurrent fee's go up but my rate, to be competitive, remains the same or even in some cases is less. Do I sit at home or go to work?
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 1,468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm freelance too, I pay my recurrent too.
Does that mean that I accept to fly PIC on a GLEX for 500USD as some do?
No.
You do? good for you, you get to fly. Bad for me and everybody else, because the rates gets dragged to the bottom. Thanks.
But then, please, do not come here complaining that there is no money in this business.
Does that mean that I accept to fly PIC on a GLEX for 500USD as some do?
No.
You do? good for you, you get to fly. Bad for me and everybody else, because the rates gets dragged to the bottom. Thanks.
But then, please, do not come here complaining that there is no money in this business.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets compare apples with apples here - We're talking about a UK based full-time Challenger Captain here. The salary to attract a presentable, rounded and TYPE rated Captain is in the order of £85 -105k pa. (Germany/Austria - less for some reason, and also sometimes less if the job is more like a paid holiday - I was offered £65k once for P1 on a GLex, but was tempted, as it flew once a month, and generally to a 5* beach resort.)
You will probably get a few CVs for less, but you get what you pay for. The guys who are willing to work for peanuts are on the market for a reason - a bit odd or a bit clueless and cant find better. Thankfully most bosses recognise this, and in my experience, we are not so much subject to the same unseemly low-balling as in the airline pilot world.
As for freelancing, I have generally found operators are willing to pay for LPCs (inc cost sharing). If I had to pay that myself, my quotes would appear astronomical (even though it would just be recouping the considerable cost).
You will probably get a few CVs for less, but you get what you pay for. The guys who are willing to work for peanuts are on the market for a reason - a bit odd or a bit clueless and cant find better. Thankfully most bosses recognise this, and in my experience, we are not so much subject to the same unseemly low-balling as in the airline pilot world.
As for freelancing, I have generally found operators are willing to pay for LPCs (inc cost sharing). If I had to pay that myself, my quotes would appear astronomical (even though it would just be recouping the considerable cost).
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
flydive1
I do not complain, you must have me mixed up with someone else.
Joe le Taxi
The aircraft I fly have insurance that requires sim based training so I have to do the expensive route.
No need for aggression here, times are tough and some folks have to accept that for what it is. At the same time I do not belong to a union, I run my own business and will do what I have to, to remain in business. If that means negotiating for work so be it. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to send me £20,000 to pay for my recurrent and I will listen to their argument. By the way, I have not reduced my rate but have not increased it in the last 3 years either.
If there was a Challenger Capt. out there out of work and refused £80K or more in today's financial climate then he is obviously financialy sound or bonkers.
I do not complain, you must have me mixed up with someone else.
Joe le Taxi
The aircraft I fly have insurance that requires sim based training so I have to do the expensive route.
No need for aggression here, times are tough and some folks have to accept that for what it is. At the same time I do not belong to a union, I run my own business and will do what I have to, to remain in business. If that means negotiating for work so be it. Anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to send me £20,000 to pay for my recurrent and I will listen to their argument. By the way, I have not reduced my rate but have not increased it in the last 3 years either.
If there was a Challenger Capt. out there out of work and refused £80K or more in today's financial climate then he is obviously financialy sound or bonkers.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,657
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NuName - I think you are missing one point here, I assume Joe le Taxi IS talking about "sim based" recurrent training. I don't know ANY operators, or European authorities that accept any other type of recurrent training for these kind of aircraft (GLEX, Falcon, Challengers etc).
From what I hear salaries for these types today should be from £85K or €110K per year. Accepting €60K per year as Captain sounds very strange to me unless the roster was exceptional or perhaps it was something temporary just to get some cash....even then.....?
CP
From what I hear salaries for these types today should be from £85K or €110K per year. Accepting €60K per year as Captain sounds very strange to me unless the roster was exceptional or perhaps it was something temporary just to get some cash....even then.....?
CP