Lear Jet Crash - David Coulthard

[PLovett]

Please excuse me if this is posted on the wrong forum.

Some years ago the Scottish racing driver, David Coulthard, was involved in the crash in the south of France of a Lear Jet that he had chartered. Obviously, Coulthard survived along with his girlfriend and their dog. The crew, I think, were unfortunately killed.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the cause of the crash?

[tommoutrie]

Yes you have the wrong forum. This is the forum for random, ill informed speculation and shoddy guesswork. Actually, thats not true, some of it will be brilliant and correct but you won't be able to tell whats informed and whats guesswork. You probably want this document

http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2000/g-ri...-ri000502a.pdf

Tom

[PLovett]

Thank you Tom.

A good example of how to turn an emergency into a disaster, especially when things had been going well up to the final few seconds.

[hawker750]

Plovett
You are wrong, things had not ben going well at all for most of the time since the engine failure.
I was retained by the Insurance Company as an expert witness so spent a great deal of time examaning the facts.
The major factor was that the Captain was out of his comfort zone because he had never received any training or testing in the scenario he experienced. Yes, he had practiced engine failures and single engine landings many times but not in the way that happened..
95% of engine failure training/testing is done from an engine failure on take off. This is because there is a requirement to do it. Great, identify the failure, put in rudder (loads in the case of the Lear 35a and rudder trim). Then what? Radar vectors for an ILS to Go-Around then a non precission approach to land. All the time the aircraft is trimmed for the assymetry and the pilot is aware of it.

In this case at no time, until very late, was there any need for rudder trim as he was high and fast with the other engine at low power. (maybe because he thought there was also a problem with the good engine). Consequently it was a classic case of an unstable approach with the need for a very high power input at the last second.
It is notable that in fact there was a vey slight rudder trim input in the wrong sense.
At no time in his training/testing had he performed a single engine landing from an engine failure in the cruise. If he had he may have been instructed in the virtues of a stabilised approach. Speed and height can be a pilot's saviour in certan circumstances, but a killer in this one. This scenario should be practised during recurrent training.
Read the report again it really should be used as a CRM exercise

[MungoP]

I'm grateful that this came up..I hadn't seen the report until now and have distributed it to all of our Lear 35 crew.. The emphasis on a stabilized approach in any emergency is paramount... Taking a few extra minutes before leaving the safety of altitude can literally be a lifesaver, not least because in an already tense situation the pressure is not further racked up by contending with an unstable approach.

[hawker750]

Yes, the stabalised approach is paramount, specially in a feisty beast on one engine as the 35 is.
The next question is why did he land (sic) at Lyons? This caused everything to be rushed. The passengers wanted to go to Nice. Sounds like a good idea to me. By the time they had completed the shutdown drills and talked about options, had a quick fag, it would have been TOD for Nice. Somebody said they turned an emergency into a disaster. More like they turned an abnormal situation into an emergeny that turned into tragidy.

[stickjoc]

Many years ago, i did my first simulator based type rating in the LR35 sim at Wichita, we practiced single engine landings as the instructor knew that the LR35 becomes unstable in roll with an engine out near VREF.
In fact one other pilot i was with had alot of trouble with this manoeuvre, but my point is that we did practice for this very scenario.

[learjet50]

Hawker 750

Hi

would just like to add that neither of the crew were smokers

This was an awful accident which we would like to forget but I know we cant

I only hope that this will be a lesson for all other lear 35 crews to learn bi
y



R I P DS and DW (Gone but will never be forgotten)



Gerry


X N E A

[fernytickles]

The next question is why did he land (sic) at Lyons?

Did they know what had caused the engine failure? If not, were they concerned that the other engine would bow to peer pressure?

The only engine failure I have had to deal with was on a 4-engined jet. Should be a doddle, but it was very sudden with no gradual deterioration, which lead to concern that the others might follow suit.

[learjet50]

ferneytickles

My two pennys worth is

It was one of the longest runways available nearby and so logically they went for it

I am 99 percent sure the Main bearing on the engine siezed and moved forward and siezed the engine

I am not a pilot so I dont know these are just my opinios


all I can add is that the A/c had performed a demo flight 4 days prior to the accident at Biggin and was flown by 2 diffrent pilots both very experienced and senior in the company the only defect that was found was


The Tape player in the Cabin did not work (They were ****ty ones anyhow)

The rest of the aircraft was 100 percent servisable all maintenance was up to date
it was a random failure on the engine which resulted in a fatal accident

The wifes and children of the 2 Crew have had 12 years to try to get over this please lets not put them thru this digging into history again as they are trying to re build there lives


any comments to my reply to this forum ok BUT LETS NOT MAKE IT A MAJOR ISSUE


Gerry

[fernytickles]

Gerry,

I'm not trying to pick holes in the memory or the good character of the crew at all. I hope I didn't come across like that. In many cases with accidents, my initial thoughts are "there but for the grace of ...".

I have found most constructive discussions regarding accidents an opportunity to learn, the causes and preventative measures hopefully (selfishly?) put me one step further away from ending up in a similar situation.

[MungoP]

The only positive thing that comes out of these events is that they offer an opportunity for the rest of us to learn from the mistakes of others...it would be a crime to ignore that opportunity... A tragic event.. the survivors were extremely fortunate...
Let those that didn't make it Rest in Peace.

The lesson here might be one that I've tried to push over and over again during my time as a FlightSafety instructor... Don't rush to the scene of the accident.

[formulaben]

The wifes and children of the 2 Crew have had 12 years to try to get over this please lets not put them thru this digging into history again as they are trying to re build there lives

I would think that one would take comfort that other pilots discussing this unfortunate event are learning lessons from the accident. Pilots discussing this can only be good for their spouse/family in that it may not happen to them.

Thoughts and prayers with the crew's families.