Gulfstream G150 Type Rating and other things
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Gulfstream G150 Type Rating and other things
Hi, I was recently solving here what jet will be the best for our company. After increasing our budget we abandoned Learjet 60. Thank you all for your posting and help at Lerjet 6O thread.
We finally choosed Gulfstream G150. Hopefully it's a good choice. We are now looking for a good one at the market. And of course we need type rating. I found the FlightSafety only one company which provides the training. But price is pretty crazy. Does anybody know other training company for G150?
We finally choosed Gulfstream G150. Hopefully it's a good choice. We are now looking for a good one at the market. And of course we need type rating. I found the FlightSafety only one company which provides the training. But price is pretty crazy. Does anybody know other training company for G150?
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But price is pretty crazy.
We have some aircraft where we are charged $70k per year for crew training, so I doubt that the G150 is that bad.Also it might be worth noting that if you are considering flying into the Middle East, some countries wont allow the G150 to overfly.
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I think Gulfstream and FlightSafety have aligned training for the newer models (G200/G150/G450/550/G650). TR as well as MX training. I think FS has centers all over the place but the only G150 sims I've seen were in Dallas. 150 is a hot-rod, according to a LR60 captain that transitioned to it. Good Luck. 
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Yeah it's really expensive. 100k for two pilots for initial training. For 60's was it 48k. It's unbelievable! Does any body know who else does the initial training for the G150?
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150 won't beat the 60 on the runway or in the climb, but the captain I was talking to seemed to appreciate the range and speed of it. Or maybe he was just happy to finally taxi with his hands instead of his feet.
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Assuming you are going to operate N register, this is the list of active simulators, you can check who has the sim...... But you will also discover that this is a closed market with exorbitant training costs. We can train a B748 crew for about 1/3 of the cost of a 7X crew.....
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It might be worth going via a broker: Try PSB Business & Commercial Pilot Discount Simulator Training and Flight Crew - Pilots.
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FS has probably monopoly on G150 
btw a friend of mine has flown G150 over Syria, Iran and other countries. There is a problem when departure airport is in Israel only. Also an alternate can't be in these countries.
btw a friend of mine has flown G150 over Syria, Iran and other countries. There is a problem when departure airport is in Israel only. Also an alternate can't be in these countries.
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btw a friend of mine has flown G150 over Syria, Iran and other countries.
I've flown the 150 and it's actually a rather competent aircraft. I'm still skeptical about the whole boots on moving leading edges thing, and to an extent I still am. The Q-feel system doesn't match the combination of hydraulic and manual controls very well [there is a disparity between pitch and roll feel] and the fact that it has the same switches as the Hawker but they work in the reverse sense [down for on] pissed me right off. I also didn't like the little stand you need for the door or the crappy design of the fold out cabin monitor.
That said, they were really the worst of the negatives. I was, in overall terms actually very impressed. For the money it's fast, easy enough on fuel, handles nicely (not withstanding the above) the Proline is more like the CL30 than the Hawker and, IMO, suits this kind of application perfectly. It also has a decent external baggage bay. I know I've 'ranted' a bit but it's easy to pick up the negatives in any scenario and it's actually a great aircraft.
Regarding training, yes, thats a total rip-off; the monopoly is a major problem here... With a Hawker you can barter - you get quoted $23.8k and pay $9k at the same place. but it doesn't change the fact that business jet training is something of a cartel. The sims are busy enough but somehow it's still possible to get a B744 initial for slightly more than half of a Hawker recurrent?!?! This all leads to another problem.... Contract/freelance crew????
If it was my money, I'd pitch for something more mainstream but one of the beauties of GA is that no two operations are the same and I see no reason why a properly resourced operation that chooses the 150 on merit shouldn't be entirely happy with the outcome.
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Friend of mine flew with Gulfstream over Syria 2 years ago. He sent me a picture of PFD. If I'll find it I can post it here.
The de-icing system is a little strange for this jet category. But it's still better system than Hawker's fluid system and a bucket of the fluid in the baggage compartment.
The G150's performance is great and It can fly non-stop Europe-America as a private flight. Steep approaches and short rwy requirements makes it the best choice in its category.
We'll see if we choosed right one. But we paid a lot for analysis and this seems to be the best choice indeed.
The de-icing system is a little strange for this jet category. But it's still better system than Hawker's fluid system and a bucket of the fluid in the baggage compartment.
The G150's performance is great and It can fly non-stop Europe-America as a private flight. Steep approaches and short rwy requirements makes it the best choice in its category.
We'll see if we choosed right one. But we paid a lot for analysis and this seems to be the best choice indeed.
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The weak point on a G150 is the flap/slat system. Testing it requires a special test box that most shops won't have. The G200 has a slightly better system but they didn't use it on the 150, it's the same as an Astra/G100. Pax seem to like the cabin and stand-up lav. Gulfstream has great support, it seems, no matter where you may be. Leaky flight control actuators are fairly normal even on a new aircraft, there is an allowed leak rate and prices for them are , just like all the parts for the IAI/Gulfstream products. Try to get some kind of a warranty, they aren't cheap and will seem like a waste until the airplane has a problem. I like the 150 but prefer the 200.
, just like all the parts for the IAI/Gulfstream products. Try to get some kind of a warranty, they aren't cheap and will seem like a waste until the airplane has a problem. I like the 150 but prefer the 200.
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Friend of mine flew with Gulfstream over Syria 2 years ago
Gulfstream has great support
Mutt
When was this? It's kind of hearsay but I've heard of issues.... I'm not anti the product I'm just interested... I've had a Lebanese client refuse one saying it's not allowed and I figured it might, sadly, be the case.
As far as Syria, we no longer overfly the country. It's not allowed, I don't believe you will get overflight permission. We used to years ago, but no longer do.
The G150 is a great aircraft with baggage space a Hawker driver could only dream of. .85 Mmo pretty respectable too, even although a G100 can cruise at that with its .875 Mmo.
The FSI DFW guys have plenty of time on the aircraft so know it's quirks well for initial training. In Europe you have Columbia in Germany and Altenrhein in Switzerland for maintenance. Agreed, the flap/slat system can be problematic for some. The de-ice boots are hardly ever used, the wing does not pick up ice often. Make sure you get a good pre-buy.
Also, there are a fair few IAI G200's based in DXB - obviously not an issue for their Arab owners.
The G150 only has a Gulfstream data plate, as do some G100's.
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Last month made a trip from Finland to Seychelles and back, overflew Iran and number of other countries, fuel stop in Bahrain - no problem...
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Does anybody have G150 flight manual or training manual? I would like start studying before type rating. I found FMS training manual only. I appreciate anything what helps.
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If I may, I'd like to offer some first-hand information as an early operator of the G150.
Yes, FSI DFW is the only 142 trainer for the type with two sims available.
The slat system of the G150 is greatly improved over the G100/IA-1125, using different flex shafts and improved actuators that are similar to the G200. The improved system has been very reliable overall and is not a focal point failure item on Gulfstream's PS radar.
The Collins avionics platform of the G150 is by far the best application of the system in any PL21 equipped aircraft. And, yes...better than the CL30. The ADI display is edge to edge...unlike the CL30, it has more "standard" features, and includes the side mounted CCD's of the Big G's. There's a lot of available information that can be accessed multiple ways for convenience and redundancy.
However "old school" they may be, the boot deice system is very effective and does not rob the engines of power in any way. In fact, the system is rarely used due to the design of the airfoil. Like the G100/IA-1125/GALX, the wing just doesn't accrete ice like other airframes can. One draw back of the grey colored boot material on the G150, and later G200's, is that it's more difficult to tell when there is a little ice accretion versus the black boot material.
While the G150 will not out climb a LR60...It will go farther, faster, with a shorter runway requirement than the LR60, with nearly identical SFC. At mid-weight and standard temps the G150 will cruise comfortably at FL450, .78-.80M, on 1150-1200 lbs/hr. fuel burn. At FL400-410 following a MGW departure with a max cruise power setting it will accelerate to .78-.80 initially, and continue to accelerate to .84-.85 as fuel burns off. If range is the goal, maintaining .76-.78 and step climbing to FL430-450 yields the best NM/LB in my experience.
It's control continuity isn't as nice as a Falcon, or even a KA200 for that matter. Yes it's a little heavy in feel, has a unique un-stick quality at rotation...but it's not that bad overall. It's ground steering is very nice, with 7 degree L/R ability through the pedals. It's wheel brakes are very strong and it's easy to apply them smoothly. The air-brake system is redesigned using 8 total panels. In flight they may be deployed as one on each wing, or two on each wing. Ground ABs deploy all 8 panels when WOW during landing or RTO.
My only real gripe about the airplane is that it has an aft CG. Due diligence must be exercised when loading max fuel to remain inside the envelope. Most all airplanes have compromises, but in its category...the G150 performs most all missions very well.
Yes, FSI DFW is the only 142 trainer for the type with two sims available.
The slat system of the G150 is greatly improved over the G100/IA-1125, using different flex shafts and improved actuators that are similar to the G200. The improved system has been very reliable overall and is not a focal point failure item on Gulfstream's PS radar.
The Collins avionics platform of the G150 is by far the best application of the system in any PL21 equipped aircraft. And, yes...better than the CL30. The ADI display is edge to edge...unlike the CL30, it has more "standard" features, and includes the side mounted CCD's of the Big G's. There's a lot of available information that can be accessed multiple ways for convenience and redundancy.
However "old school" they may be, the boot deice system is very effective and does not rob the engines of power in any way. In fact, the system is rarely used due to the design of the airfoil. Like the G100/IA-1125/GALX, the wing just doesn't accrete ice like other airframes can. One draw back of the grey colored boot material on the G150, and later G200's, is that it's more difficult to tell when there is a little ice accretion versus the black boot material.
While the G150 will not out climb a LR60...It will go farther, faster, with a shorter runway requirement than the LR60, with nearly identical SFC. At mid-weight and standard temps the G150 will cruise comfortably at FL450, .78-.80M, on 1150-1200 lbs/hr. fuel burn. At FL400-410 following a MGW departure with a max cruise power setting it will accelerate to .78-.80 initially, and continue to accelerate to .84-.85 as fuel burns off. If range is the goal, maintaining .76-.78 and step climbing to FL430-450 yields the best NM/LB in my experience.
It's control continuity isn't as nice as a Falcon, or even a KA200 for that matter. Yes it's a little heavy in feel, has a unique un-stick quality at rotation...but it's not that bad overall. It's ground steering is very nice, with 7 degree L/R ability through the pedals. It's wheel brakes are very strong and it's easy to apply them smoothly. The air-brake system is redesigned using 8 total panels. In flight they may be deployed as one on each wing, or two on each wing. Ground ABs deploy all 8 panels when WOW during landing or RTO.
My only real gripe about the airplane is that it has an aft CG. Due diligence must be exercised when loading max fuel to remain inside the envelope. Most all airplanes have compromises, but in its category...the G150 performs most all missions very well.