EASA Private jet on a class 2 medical

[Son of a Beech]

Can you fly a private falcon 900 as a PIC (non AOC) on a class 2 medical, Since this is private flying

Soab

[BizJetJock]

Only if you own it.

[jr of dallas]

I believe not...you need to be full ATPL to be PIC of a JAR 25 acft...private or not makes not differences, same with FAA regarding the class 1.
Sed lex..dura lex.

[AdamFrisch]

I can only speak for FAA, but you do not need a class 1 or 2 (the equiv to class 1 in EASA) for CPL or ATPL. You're not allowed to work (ie get compensation) without it, but you can hold them with a class 3.

The only scenario where you can directly get paid for your flying and still be on a class 3 medical is if you're an instructor (CFI, CFII). Indirectly, there are others. For instance, you can take aerial photographs in your own plane, sell them and make money on them, with a CPL and a class 3. Perhaps even with a PPL.

[BillieBob]

The answer to the original question is 'Yes'. Under JAR/EASA, you can fly as PIC on a private flight in any aircraft on a PPL (i.e. with a Class 2 medical), provided that you hold the appropriate class or type rating. However, to obtain a type rating on a multi-pilot aircraft you must have passed the ATPL theoretical knowledge exams (but not necessarily hold the licence) and hold an instrument rating.

[jr of dallas]

Hi Billiebob, by curiosity you have references of the FCL articles for what you are telling us.. i cannot find it written ! would like to know where i can find that.

[BillieBob]

JAR-FCL 1.110

(a) - Privileges [of a PPL] Subject to any other conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act, but not for remuneration, as pilot-in-command or co-pilot of any aeroplane engaged in non-revenue flights.

To exercise the privileges of a PPL (or the private privileges of a CPL (JAR-FCL 1.150(a)(1))or ATPL (JAR 1.275(a)(1))), you need to hold only a Class 2 medical (JAR-FCL 1.105).

The requirements for a multi-pilot type rating are at JAR-FCL 1.250.

[BizJetJock]

But again, the key point is for remuneration. There is plenty of case law that says this doesn't have to be money, and that the hours you are getting can even count. You may say "I have x thousand hours, so it is not a benefit to me", but the CAA don't see it that way.
So unless you own the aeroplane, you would have to be able to show that you were flying it just as a hobby. Enjoy!

[3 Point]

Caution guys, the OP asked the question in the context of EASA; BillieBob has answered quoting JAR-FCL information. We all need to be very careful because JAR is gone (or at least going) and EASA is the brave new world. In many areas they are the same, in some areas they are similar but subtly different and in some areas the regulations are completely different. Be sure that you know which set of rules pertains to your situation.

Happy landings!

3 Point

[BillieBob]

AFAIK nobody has yet implemented the Annexes to the Aircrew Regulation and so JAR-FCL 1 requirements are effectively still in place. Slovenia is due to be the first to implement, later this month, followed by the UK in September. Most member states are delaying implementation until April 2013.

In any case, the EASA requirements are exactly the same as JAR-FCL in respect of the privileges of a PPL. The wording of FCL.250.A is slightly different - "The privileges of the holder of a PPL(A) are to act without remuneration as PIC or co-pilot on aeroplanes or TMGs engaged in non-commercial operations". However, there is still no restriction on the aeroplanes that may be flown. The CPL (FCL.305(a)(1))and ATPL (FCL.505(a)(1))still contain embedded PPL privileges that may be exercised with a Class 2 medical. Pre-requisites for multi pilot aeroplane type ratings are also unchanged and may be found at FCL.720.A(d)

[3 Point]

Hi Billiebob, you are quite right, nobody has implemented the aircrew regulations yet but I just wanted to point out for the benefit of those less well informed that the rules are changing very soon and we all need to be entirely certain that we are using the correct set of rules for any given situation. The OP did specifically ask his question in the context of EASA and you answered in JAR terms; the information you gave is correct but it may not be relevant to the quesiton!

I raised a warning flag because the OP may have been incorrect to ask in terms of EASA if he wants to fly now; you may have been wrong to answer in JAR terms if he was asking for the future (after 17 Sep or whatever date they eventually implement the regs in UK) or, as in this case the answer could be the same either way.

What I’m trying to emphasise is that there will be important changes and we all need to be very careful to see that we use the correct set of rules for any particular situation.

Happy landings

3 Point

[Gulfstreamaviator]

2 points for clarification

First, the OP was asking about class 2.....

Second, with class 2 can you be SIC on the Falcon, and get paid under JAA/EASA.

glf

[3 Point]

Hi Gulfstream,
OP was asking about flying as PIC with a class 2 medical under EASA rules. That being the case I don’t see the relevance of your reference to SIC which in any case is not a term used in JAA or EASA. You report that it is possible to be paid to act as SIC under “JAA/EASA” with a class 2 medical but it is not possible to be paid to act as a pilot with a PPL (except as a flying instructor) and a CPL or ATP requires a class 1 medical.

In any case I’m concerned that you write “JAA/EASA” as if they are the same thing – they most definitely are not. They are, as I say two entirely different animals which may, in some areas have the same outcome but we all need to be very careful over the coming months.

I’d advise the OP and others to ignore any advice on here except in so far as it points him to the appropriate source regulations where he can look for the actual answer to his question. Just be sure to be looking at the correct set of regulations.

3 Point

[Gulfstreamaviator]

clarification of my post

There are usually two pilots in a Falcon, and only once can be PIC, the other might be called SIC, or first officer, or RT operator. Howerv you read the words, only one can be CAPTAIN.

Several private companies that I know, have no desire to ensure thet the P2 (sic), has a class 1 medical, as the Captain has one. So the other person in the front seats has a class2.

Re JAA/ EASA. I accept that I should have written OR not / please orgive this error. I could just as easy have written UKCAA / JAA / EASA.

I do not remember saying that you can be paid if exercising a PPL, in these circumstances.

I would agree with other posters that as EASA is still a work in progress, NO ONE has the definitive answer.

glf

[3 Point]

"I do not remember saying that you can be paid if exercising a PPL, in these circumstances."

No, you're right you did not use those words but you did say ...

"with class 2 can you be SIC on the Falcon, and get paid under JAA/EASA"

Under JAA and under EASA rules you need a class 1 medical to exercise CPL or ATPL privileges and you need to be flying with one of those professional licneces to be getting paid (legally) so effectively you did say that you can get paid to fly with a PPL.

Anyway, my point is that the different sets of rules have to be consulted very carefully and one has to ensure that one is referring to the correct rules for any situation and that's all I was trying to say!

Happy landings

[Gulfstreamaviator]

3 point thanks

You are correct I did not say... but as you suggest it is implied... Thanks...

As an aside, how does the FAA view the Class 2 medical, and its validity under Private / corporate operations.

Glf