Olympics 2012
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Olympics 2012
I read yesterday that the slot allocation system which applies during the Olympics period for using London area airports has hardly been groaning under the strain, with less than 25% of available slots having been taken up.
Is it simply a matter of operators leaving it until the last minute or is the much hyped 'huge demand' all hype and no real demand?
Apparently several airfields that had anticipated receiving large numbers of aircraft for parking, after they had dropped off their pax elsewhere, have received no enquiries at all.
Is it simply a matter of operators leaving it until the last minute or is the much hyped 'huge demand' all hype and no real demand?
Apparently several airfields that had anticipated receiving large numbers of aircraft for parking, after they had dropped off their pax elsewhere, have received no enquiries at all.
Avoid imitations
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Hardly surprising, though, is it? Following the latest "friendly reminder" from the CAA, it's now a case of "Trespassers will be shot down, any survivors will be prosecuted".
With Blindfire Rapier ground to air missiles on the ready, which rely only on the correct transponder code to decide who is friend or foe in IMC, who in their right mind with any choice would want to chance it?
With Blindfire Rapier ground to air missiles on the ready, which rely only on the correct transponder code to decide who is friend or foe in IMC, who in their right mind with any choice would want to chance it?
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I would forget Southend. Refuelling is a nightmare and the ops staff are way out of their depth. Today on the Southend web site they announced that even VFR slots will need pre booked and charged at £200 a hit even for GA traffic under 2500kg aum.
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HeliAl
The £200 is a deposit to secure the required slot and that amount will be credited against the fees for actually using the slot. If those fees come to less than £200 the balance will be refunded.
So the reality isn't quite what your post suggested and perhaps operationally things have also changed since your last visit.
I understand that the redevelopment of the old passsenger terminal airside area will have been completed to cater exclusively for GA traffic, with stands directly adjacent. Kerbside pax drop off/pick up is also only steps away in front of the old terminal.
The £200 is a deposit to secure the required slot and that amount will be credited against the fees for actually using the slot. If those fees come to less than £200 the balance will be refunded.
So the reality isn't quite what your post suggested and perhaps operationally things have also changed since your last visit.
I understand that the redevelopment of the old passsenger terminal airside area will have been completed to cater exclusively for GA traffic, with stands directly adjacent. Kerbside pax drop off/pick up is also only steps away in front of the old terminal.
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I agree with your comments regarding the pre payment. Which works when your IFR. But if it is a nice day and you want to go flying VFR. No pre paid slot no fly. Or let's go to Southend VFR, not till you have pre paid for a slot!. The Airport are addiment that this is how it works.
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SEN Olympic traffic
I think HeliAl was also pointing out that refuelling is a nightmare and ops staff will be way out of their depth. Seems strange to me that the airport management decided to spend untold millions on accommodating EasyJet yet have done nothing to attract business and general aviation. Anyone turning up at SEN for the first time in their shiny biz-jet during the Olympics will most probably make it their last visit. SEN needed a quality FBO prior to the start of the Olympics! l can't see an FBO operator starting up there now, at least not whilst EasyJet are treated as the only customers on the field.
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Are you actually aware of what will be in place at SEN for the Olympics or just basing your opinion on what has been the situation in the past?
As far as a "quality FBO" establishing itself at SEN is concerned, perhaps you won't have to wait too long for that either. I do agree though that such an operator being in place prior to the Olympics would have increased SEN's credibility and profile.
It's hardly surprising really that easyJet have been treated as a priority there and I'm sure progress will be made in other areas of activity in due course. Whether SEN does well or not from bizjet activity during the Olympics period is hardly going to affect their overall success, whereas keeping easyJet happy is obviously of considerably greater importance.
As far as a "quality FBO" establishing itself at SEN is concerned, perhaps you won't have to wait too long for that either. I do agree though that such an operator being in place prior to the Olympics would have increased SEN's credibility and profile.
It's hardly surprising really that easyJet have been treated as a priority there and I'm sure progress will be made in other areas of activity in due course. Whether SEN does well or not from bizjet activity during the Olympics period is hardly going to affect their overall success, whereas keeping easyJet happy is obviously of considerably greater importance.
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What FBO?
Article in AIN dated (I kid you not) 1st April 2012 quotes a bod from SEN:
<The airport also owns and operates an FBO, which it plans to renovate in time for the opening of the Olympic Games in London this summer. According to Jonathan Rayner, head of business development for the airport, London Southend expects to request bids for an established FBO operator to take over the job. “We expect to have a well known global FBO brand partner established in time for the Olympics.” >
They don't have an FBO - they have a waiting room that is grandly called "Executive Handling" which is also used by the gen avn pilots. And they have so much faith in the ability of their own staff that they are looking for an established FBO operator to take over intime for the Olympics! Good luck to the "well known global FBO brand partner" when they take over the waiting room - can't imagine how much money they will need to invest in replacing the 4 sofas and 3 tables.
Ramp parking is limited to the space between the Easy stands, the fire station and taxiway C (+26m each side from centreline has to be kept clear). Where else are they going to park the hordes of aircraft descending on them for the Olympics? The ICAO chart shows 10 parking slots not used by Easy. No-one in their right mind would use the facilities off of taxiway D as this area is unlicensed leaving taxiway F as an ad-hoc parking plot.
If I was flying the boss in I'd be booking Biggin, Farnborough, Stansted and even Luton ahead of SEN.
<The airport also owns and operates an FBO, which it plans to renovate in time for the opening of the Olympic Games in London this summer. According to Jonathan Rayner, head of business development for the airport, London Southend expects to request bids for an established FBO operator to take over the job. “We expect to have a well known global FBO brand partner established in time for the Olympics.” >
They don't have an FBO - they have a waiting room that is grandly called "Executive Handling" which is also used by the gen avn pilots. And they have so much faith in the ability of their own staff that they are looking for an established FBO operator to take over intime for the Olympics! Good luck to the "well known global FBO brand partner" when they take over the waiting room - can't imagine how much money they will need to invest in replacing the 4 sofas and 3 tables.
Ramp parking is limited to the space between the Easy stands, the fire station and taxiway C (+26m each side from centreline has to be kept clear). Where else are they going to park the hordes of aircraft descending on them for the Olympics? The ICAO chart shows 10 parking slots not used by Easy. No-one in their right mind would use the facilities off of taxiway D as this area is unlicensed leaving taxiway F as an ad-hoc parking plot.
If I was flying the boss in I'd be booking Biggin, Farnborough, Stansted and even Luton ahead of SEN.
Thread Starter
asdf1234
You really do have it in for SEN don't you - I wonder why.
At least try to be accurate with your description of the parking available adjacent to the revamped GA facility. Full-size stands 12 to 16 will be available for short stay parking and normal turnrounds - that hardly fits the description that you give in your last post. Stands 1 to 5 (north of stands 6 to 10 which serve the new terminal) are now complete and ready for imminent use for longer stay traffic. Taxyway D doesn't come into the equation at all unless engineering is required as it serves the (extensive) maintenance area only. There are also full size stands 17 to 21 on the north side of the apron which will be used as required/available no doubt. Obviously stand allocations will be made in light of traffic needs on the day, but there is plenty of flexibility there to be able offer a decent service.
I will repeat, as you don't seem to be able to take this in, that the old terminal airside area is being redeveloped to provide good quality executive pax/crew facilities in time for the Olympics. Why do you keep quoting the previous modest facilities as if they are all that will be available?
My information on the above was obtained during a meeting with Jonny Rayner last Wednesday (on another matter entirely) so I assume it is accurate and I'll check with him today to see if there is an update.
You really do have it in for SEN don't you - I wonder why.
At least try to be accurate with your description of the parking available adjacent to the revamped GA facility. Full-size stands 12 to 16 will be available for short stay parking and normal turnrounds - that hardly fits the description that you give in your last post. Stands 1 to 5 (north of stands 6 to 10 which serve the new terminal) are now complete and ready for imminent use for longer stay traffic. Taxyway D doesn't come into the equation at all unless engineering is required as it serves the (extensive) maintenance area only. There are also full size stands 17 to 21 on the north side of the apron which will be used as required/available no doubt. Obviously stand allocations will be made in light of traffic needs on the day, but there is plenty of flexibility there to be able offer a decent service.
I will repeat, as you don't seem to be able to take this in, that the old terminal airside area is being redeveloped to provide good quality executive pax/crew facilities in time for the Olympics. Why do you keep quoting the previous modest facilities as if they are all that will be available?
My information on the above was obtained during a meeting with Jonny Rayner last Wednesday (on another matter entirely) so I assume it is accurate and I'll check with him today to see if there is an update.
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........ and here it is.
Construction of the new FBO arrivals/departure facilities within the old terminal is well under way and a considerable amount of money is being spent on it. It will be open before the Olympics begin and the lounge will have a similar look and feel to the Business Lounge in the new terminal at SEN, for those of you who may have seen it. I looked round that last week and can only say that Stobarts certainly haven't skimped on quality, so I'm sure the new facility will be up to the expected standard.
As far as parking is concerned, the Aircraft Parking/Docking Chart is available on the UK AIP AD 2-EGMC-2-2 (8 Mar 12) page. The old terminal in shown on there South of stands 12 & 13, with the Holiday Inn (due to open on 25th July I believe) only 100 yards away to the South-East.
It really would seem that any suggestion that SEN's FBO facilities are going to be below par for the Olympics is wide of the mark, although they were perhaps understandable before information on the new facility became available. Maybe SEN should be actively promoting these on their website to avoid any such misconceptions.
Construction of the new FBO arrivals/departure facilities within the old terminal is well under way and a considerable amount of money is being spent on it. It will be open before the Olympics begin and the lounge will have a similar look and feel to the Business Lounge in the new terminal at SEN, for those of you who may have seen it. I looked round that last week and can only say that Stobarts certainly haven't skimped on quality, so I'm sure the new facility will be up to the expected standard.
As far as parking is concerned, the Aircraft Parking/Docking Chart is available on the UK AIP AD 2-EGMC-2-2 (8 Mar 12) page. The old terminal in shown on there South of stands 12 & 13, with the Holiday Inn (due to open on 25th July I believe) only 100 yards away to the South-East.
It really would seem that any suggestion that SEN's FBO facilities are going to be below par for the Olympics is wide of the mark, although they were perhaps understandable before information on the new facility became available. Maybe SEN should be actively promoting these on their website to avoid any such misconceptions.
Last edited by Expressflight; 15th Jun 2012 at 10:55.
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Sounds great. Somewhere to sit and enjoy the tv whilst waiting a couple of hours for re-fuel and getting my handling, catering and toilet service done. ( accommodation done just no body to work there).
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And just how do you know that any previous shortcomings in those aspects have not been tackled as well? It seems to me that, for some reason, you're going to damn SEN whatever they do to improve on the previous situation.
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Hit a nerve have I. Remember it is PPRUNE. You do not have to be brain surgeon to see the shambles of getting their act together. With a month to go,getting personnel in place is one thing, getting them trained and approved is another.I do support the plans for the changes at Southend. But the management need to get off their BAA high horse and come down to realality of a regional Airport.
Thread Starter
No, you certainly haven't "hit a nerve"; sounds more like you have a chip though as far as SEN is concerned. Perhaps you've had an unfortunate experience there, but I don't sense that as being the norm.
As for the rest you're obviously entitled to your opinion but I'd be surprised if they don't put a fair bit of effort into getting it right. I'd say Stobarts have generally done pretty well just that at SEN since they bought it at the end of 2008 wouldn't you? There are a few things which still need fine tuning (some of which are outside their control), but that's only to be expected and I've found them very open to suggestions for improvements.
As for the rest you're obviously entitled to your opinion but I'd be surprised if they don't put a fair bit of effort into getting it right. I'd say Stobarts have generally done pretty well just that at SEN since they bought it at the end of 2008 wouldn't you? There are a few things which still need fine tuning (some of which are outside their control), but that's only to be expected and I've found them very open to suggestions for improvements.
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SEN isn't a bizjet airport
Expressflight,
I think you are right in that Stobarts have created the airport they wanted - one that services the orange mob very well. I think we should congratulate them on attracting a major carrier.
They would welcome bizjet traffic as it is all income to them but they have little idea of what the bizjet traffic actually wants.
This thread is about why the demand for slots during the Olympics is low and a few of us have pointed out that you wouldn't want to book a slot at SEN because they don't knpw what they are doing. Once the true business aviation centric airports are fully booked SEN will see a surge in demand - I just can't see anyone who ends up there ever returning!
And yes it would be nice to see SEN adverising their new facilities with a few pictures of their wondeful new facilities.
To bring the thread back on topic - are Biggin still planning to ferry inbound traffic to Ebbsfleet via helicopter so that they can catch the Javelin train to the Olympic park?
I think you are right in that Stobarts have created the airport they wanted - one that services the orange mob very well. I think we should congratulate them on attracting a major carrier.
They would welcome bizjet traffic as it is all income to them but they have little idea of what the bizjet traffic actually wants.
This thread is about why the demand for slots during the Olympics is low and a few of us have pointed out that you wouldn't want to book a slot at SEN because they don't knpw what they are doing. Once the true business aviation centric airports are fully booked SEN will see a surge in demand - I just can't see anyone who ends up there ever returning!
And yes it would be nice to see SEN adverising their new facilities with a few pictures of their wondeful new facilities.
To bring the thread back on topic - are Biggin still planning to ferry inbound traffic to Ebbsfleet via helicopter so that they can catch the Javelin train to the Olympic park?
Thread Starter
asdf1234
If you feel that SEN "have little idea what the bizjet traffic actually wants" and that they are going in the wrong direction in trying to cater for it, I would welcome a PM with your thoughts. Surely it's in everyone's interests that they set up a facility that satisfies the industry's needs.
Anyway, as you say we'd better get back on topic and give SEN a rest for now.
If you feel that SEN "have little idea what the bizjet traffic actually wants" and that they are going in the wrong direction in trying to cater for it, I would welcome a PM with your thoughts. Surely it's in everyone's interests that they set up a facility that satisfies the industry's needs.
Anyway, as you say we'd better get back on topic and give SEN a rest for now.
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Charity work
Hi Expressflight, given the straightened economic times and my continued endeavour in trying to get all of our clients to look upon us as less of a charity and more of a centre of knowledge and expertise for which they should be paying us, it would be unfair for me to give SEN free advice on where they are going wrong. Good luck with your project there and hope it (forgive the pun) takes off soon!!!
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Thought I'd jump in and ask Express Flight to describe the function of an FBO?
What facilities it requires and what expertise (if any) is required for an FBO to not only deliver expectation to the end client AND in turn the operator of the aircraft?
and finally, is it possible to develop this at SEN, and attract enough business in order to make it a financial viable operation?
What facilities it requires and what expertise (if any) is required for an FBO to not only deliver expectation to the end client AND in turn the operator of the aircraft?
and finally, is it possible to develop this at SEN, and attract enough business in order to make it a financial viable operation?