Challenger 300 CL-300 +/- purchase
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Challenger 300 CL-300 +/- purchase
Curious to all private business jet pilots that have flown Challenger 300 aircraft:
1) What are actual sales prices for CL-300 aircraft in the 2005-2011 vintage years? List prices range from $12mm-$21mm but curious what actual transaction prices have been...mostly for aircraft with < 2000 hrs.
2) For any Challenger 300 pilots...what are the drawbacks or disadvantages to the plane in comparison to other similar super mid-size planes?
Thank you
1) What are actual sales prices for CL-300 aircraft in the 2005-2011 vintage years? List prices range from $12mm-$21mm but curious what actual transaction prices have been...mostly for aircraft with < 2000 hrs.
2) For any Challenger 300 pilots...what are the drawbacks or disadvantages to the plane in comparison to other similar super mid-size planes?
Thank you
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Prices for CL300 of $12mm - $20mm+ are accurate depending on year, time, options, etc. In my opinion, the closest competitor is the Gulfstream G200, which is slightly slower, requires more runway, and has pneumatic de-ice boots. However, prices for G200 are at least 20% less for comparable year/time/options, G200 has more headroom in center aisle due to dropped aisle and Gulfstream support is great. In my opinion, the G200 is the best bang for the buck in this category of airplane, although some pilots don't like the pneumatic de-ice boots (no big deal in my opinion).
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Why not ask a professional? I'm not sure many pilots have a clue as to the actual purchase price was for their aircraft, or whether their principal got a good value, and certainly they don't know any market data.
You could subscribe to jetnet or amstat and find out accurate numbers, but these subscriptions cost upwards of a thousand a month.
I've never understood why a few thousand dollars worth of knowledge was an issue when 20-30-50 million US dollars was on the table.
FR
You could subscribe to jetnet or amstat and find out accurate numbers, but these subscriptions cost upwards of a thousand a month.
I've never understood why a few thousand dollars worth of knowledge was an issue when 20-30-50 million US dollars was on the table.
FR
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FrankR - Correct!
Recorded asking prices for last 30 transactions were between $10.5 to $14.7m, price on the rest were either "make offer" or only given if you showed cash on the table.
Actual transaction price is mostly unknown to anyone not actually involved in the transaction.
Let me know if you need more info and I'll send you a quote first.
CP
Recorded asking prices for last 30 transactions were between $10.5 to $14.7m, price on the rest were either "make offer" or only given if you showed cash on the table.
Actual transaction price is mostly unknown to anyone not actually involved in the transaction.
Let me know if you need more info and I'll send you a quote first.
CP
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Frank you are 100% correct. Most pilots will know sweet f.a. about pricing on deals done.
Iīve been involved with Bombardier in the last 10 weeks about taking a new position later this year whilst at the same time looking at good pre-owned examples. Iīm still amazed what we managed to obtain and there are still some bargains out there.
Kstroke you can pm me for more info. It seems you donīt really know the market.
Iīve been involved with Bombardier in the last 10 weeks about taking a new position later this year whilst at the same time looking at good pre-owned examples. Iīm still amazed what we managed to obtain and there are still some bargains out there.
Kstroke you can pm me for more info. It seems you donīt really know the market.
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The market often tells you a lot and the fact that the G200 is out of production tells you volumes - after only 250 units built over 12years.
The Challenger 300 has cleaned up in this class with over 350 units since early 2005.
Cessna built only 3 Cit X's last year. All speed no range- cant have both!
The H4000 is struggling to reach 100 units and the company could fail. & years to certify. I know one buyer who paid US$21m for the 4000 and cant sell it for US$17m six months later. Buy well is crucial.
This helps the residual values and the G200 might be cheap - but most non-production machines suffer. Industry fact. Also despite the paint it's still a IAI Galaxy.
The best 'bang for the buck' is the 300 in that class as RV will be better with more customers in the secondary market. Jetnet shows about 6% of delivered units for sale which is low.
In short, its a safe bet....
There are deals of course. Older 300s in the now low teens. Look for something with the airframe/engine/apu programs.
The Challenger 300 has cleaned up in this class with over 350 units since early 2005.
Cessna built only 3 Cit X's last year. All speed no range- cant have both!
The H4000 is struggling to reach 100 units and the company could fail. & years to certify. I know one buyer who paid US$21m for the 4000 and cant sell it for US$17m six months later. Buy well is crucial.
This helps the residual values and the G200 might be cheap - but most non-production machines suffer. Industry fact. Also despite the paint it's still a IAI Galaxy.
The best 'bang for the buck' is the 300 in that class as RV will be better with more customers in the secondary market. Jetnet shows about 6% of delivered units for sale which is low.
In short, its a safe bet....
There are deals of course. Older 300s in the now low teens. Look for something with the airframe/engine/apu programs.
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Have flown it in 2006/7 for roughly 700 hours, from a pilots point of view I loved it. Its a very responsive airplane, and it nails the figures in the handbook. You have to trim the rudder all the time, apart from that this aircraft is a delight to fly. And it does not slow down very well...
I love the collins proline 21, a marvelous system, easy to understand and use (IMO)
Having said that, the earlier numbers were plagued with a lot of electronics issues (not the avionics themselves, but things such as spoiler computers etc., most of which could be resolved by resetting the system (total removal of power...)
We had an oil chip detect, there was series of I think 10 engines that had bearings installed that were not hardened correctly.
Try to get one that already has the newer cables to update the FMS etc.(I think that happened around S/N125, 97 for sure did not have it, 125 had it)
Try to get one with the Jepp maps option installed)
The divan, that could be ordered, gives one a 210cmx90cm bed, which passengers liked very much...
Buy one with the divider between galley and cabin - the door is noisy. (that is one real drawback IMO - the is no inflatable seal, just a rubber lip - you can actually stick a finger out of the airplane at FL450...!)
There was a lot of SBs when I checked the last time, so make sure the one you pick has had the important ones done.
The CL300 is the biggest airplane I ever flew so I canīt compare it to anything in its class. I fly the C680 these days and the only field in this airplane is better is T/O performance. (the CL300 perf is good, but the C680 is sort of a STOL jet...
)
I love the collins proline 21, a marvelous system, easy to understand and use (IMO)
Having said that, the earlier numbers were plagued with a lot of electronics issues (not the avionics themselves, but things such as spoiler computers etc., most of which could be resolved by resetting the system (total removal of power...)
We had an oil chip detect, there was series of I think 10 engines that had bearings installed that were not hardened correctly.
Try to get one that already has the newer cables to update the FMS etc.(I think that happened around S/N125, 97 for sure did not have it, 125 had it)
Try to get one with the Jepp maps option installed)
The divan, that could be ordered, gives one a 210cmx90cm bed, which passengers liked very much...
Buy one with the divider between galley and cabin - the door is noisy. (that is one real drawback IMO - the is no inflatable seal, just a rubber lip - you can actually stick a finger out of the airplane at FL450...!)
There was a lot of SBs when I checked the last time, so make sure the one you pick has had the important ones done.
The CL300 is the biggest airplane I ever flew so I canīt compare it to anything in its class. I fly the C680 these days and the only field in this airplane is better is T/O performance. (the CL300 perf is good, but the C680 is sort of a STOL jet...
)
Last edited by His dudeness; 28th May 2012 at 15:48.
