Engines running with no one on board
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Engines running with no one on board
Just thought I would I ask my professional colleagues what their opinion was on the following.
Whilst waiting for pax today a private Premier 1 rolled up, single crew I might add, and no sooner had he stopped the door was opening and the pilot was disembarking the aircraft to load the bags and board the pax. As I stood there in amazement with my colleague commenting on the fact that he had left number 2 running, it then became apparent that both engines were in fact running and the aircraft was also un chocked!!!!!
I questioned it with the handling agent and advised them that they should have requested the engines be shut down before any loading or unloading of pax or baggage. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a quick turn around in a multi crew environment leaving number 2 running whilst a crew member remains at the controls but in a single pilot operation this is just reckless and dangerous! You also have to consider the fact that you are loading just underneath an operating engine. There is obviously very little risk of being sucked into an engine on a Premier 1, however, as the pax are boarding anything could fly off ones person and end up being ingested!
The biggest issue with the above was that our aircraft was parked on the stand in front! To be honest I couldn't give a toss whether something goes into his engine really :-)
Happy Christmas
Tug
Whilst waiting for pax today a private Premier 1 rolled up, single crew I might add, and no sooner had he stopped the door was opening and the pilot was disembarking the aircraft to load the bags and board the pax. As I stood there in amazement with my colleague commenting on the fact that he had left number 2 running, it then became apparent that both engines were in fact running and the aircraft was also un chocked!!!!!
I questioned it with the handling agent and advised them that they should have requested the engines be shut down before any loading or unloading of pax or baggage. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a quick turn around in a multi crew environment leaving number 2 running whilst a crew member remains at the controls but in a single pilot operation this is just reckless and dangerous! You also have to consider the fact that you are loading just underneath an operating engine. There is obviously very little risk of being sucked into an engine on a Premier 1, however, as the pax are boarding anything could fly off ones person and end up being ingested!
The biggest issue with the above was that our aircraft was parked on the stand in front! To be honest I couldn't give a toss whether something goes into his engine really :-)
Happy Christmas
Tug
Last edited by Tugnut; 27th Dec 2011 at 22:38.
I once saw another private Premier do something similar - pilot (single) had just started to taxi when the FBO advised him by radio that the pilot had left his laptop at their desk. Pilot stopped, opened up, ran back to the FBO for his laptop, leaving both engines running and no chocks with pax inside.
It was an F registed Premier - maybe the same one?
It was an F registed Premier - maybe the same one?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Switzerland
Age: 55
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
..I have yet to meet the parking brake I totally trust, no matter who the aeroplane-maker!
It's bad enough experiencing an aircraft rolling away unexpectedly when you're on board and can do something about it, imagine watching it roll away with your pax on board, headed for the nearest fuel truck
It's bad enough experiencing an aircraft rolling away unexpectedly when you're on board and can do something about it, imagine watching it roll away with your pax on board, headed for the nearest fuel truck
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do you know it was single pilot? Perhaps a pilot or assistant was in the back all ready to swiftly disembark. If not I'd suggest a formal report would be the least you could do before someone gets hurt.
Life's too short for ironing
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is a CHIRP appropriate in this situation?
2 years ago I was in Jonesboro, Arkansas, shutting down & disembarking my pax when I noticed a 310, engines running, but with one cowl open & someone working on it. Then he put the cowl back on, walked around the wing, climbed in, the driver's seat, & taxied off.....
2 years ago I was in Jonesboro, Arkansas, shutting down & disembarking my pax when I noticed a 310, engines running, but with one cowl open & someone working on it. Then he put the cowl back on, walked around the wing, climbed in, the driver's seat, & taxied off.....
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not quite a Premier 1 but a runaway aircraft nevertheless.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...Jso0wTb2_BknAg
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...Jso0wTb2_BknAg
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Home if not overnighting...
Age: 53
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If those were the conditions and circumstances, with no one on board, I see it as one on the more stupid and unsafe things to do in any aircraft, specially jets.
A failure on the brake accumulator or parking brake mechanism in a high residual thrust airplane like a jet may make it move, and counting on Murphy's law, it won't move into an empty lot, it will go straight into something very dangerous or expensive.
The very least he could do is to go on and request two set of chocks in any of the three landing gears.
A failure on the brake accumulator or parking brake mechanism in a high residual thrust airplane like a jet may make it move, and counting on Murphy's law, it won't move into an empty lot, it will go straight into something very dangerous or expensive.
The very least he could do is to go on and request two set of chocks in any of the three landing gears.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Silverknapper
There was only one crew member on board, and to be honest even if there was a crew member in the cabin, i would still have wanted him/her up front to react should there have been a brake failure.
plus I was there and know what I saw!!!!!
Tug
There was only one crew member on board, and to be honest even if there was a crew member in the cabin, i would still have wanted him/her up front to react should there have been a brake failure.
plus I was there and know what I saw!!!!!
Tug
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamburg
Age: 46
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's just stupid, and against the law here in Germany. However, I was very surprised to see ICAO Annex 2 has no provision that requires the presence of a qualified person in the cockpit as long as the engines are running.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL430
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regulation: Whenever there is an engine running there must be a crew member strapped into the flight deck, air or ground!
Note: The APU does not count as an engine. My type is certified for unmonitored use.
Note: The APU does not count as an engine. My type is certified for unmonitored use.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamburg
Age: 46
Posts: 432
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What if it was a UAV.... would you trust that parking brake
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: earth
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What if it was a UAV.... would you trust that parking brake?
On another note, the 747 classics were bad about this. The valve on the motor could get stuck while the condition lever on the pedistal would be in the "cutoff" position. I have once seen all three crew members just forget and walk out on all 4 motors running!
