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18 Months Left for Noisy operators at EGLF

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18 Months Left for Noisy operators at EGLF

Old 3rd May 2011, 12:50
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18 Months Left for Noisy operators at EGLF

Just received this, seems legacy aircraft wont be welcome.

Wonder if those 50% discounted B400's look good value now in NetJets eyes.

Examples of types that currently operate at the airport which will not be permitted after January 1st 2013 are Cessna 560 Citation V, Dassault Falcon 20, Dassault Falcon 50, Gulfstream 3, Hawker 125-600A, Hawker 125-700A and Hawker Beechjet 400 depending on the individual engine type fitted to
each aircraft.
G-SPOTs Lost is offline  
Old 3rd May 2011, 13:10
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Join Date: May 2011
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Hmmm interesting
Globally Challenged is offline  
Old 3rd May 2011, 19:49
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SURREY
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18 Months left for noisy operators at EGLF.

Come to EGLK instead!! 1335M rwy plenty of parking for DA50,G3,DA20,HS25A!!

REGARDS.
eglk01 is offline  
Old 4th May 2011, 07:59
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Farnborough
Posts: 66
Chapter 3 jets to be banned from Farnborough from 2013

They do seem to have shot themselves in the foot with this commitment to only have ICAO Chapter 4 noise-compliant aircraft by the end of next year. There are an awful lot more common Chapter 3 types not mentioned above that will no longer be able to use Farnborough - many common business aircraft models and a few biz-liner types and chartered airliners:

Bombardier
CL 600/601/604
Bombardier
Global Express
Lear
35/36/40/45/55/60
Gulfstream
IV/IVSP
Gulfstream
V/500
Gulfstream
100/200/350/450
Beechjet/Hawker
400
Hawker 125
800A/800XP/850//700/750/1000
Falcon
10/20/200/2000/900/50
Citation
650(VII),X,CJ,CJ2, Bravo, Ultra
Citation
Excel, XLS, Sovereign, Encore, Encore+


Airliner types:

Airbus
A321
Airbus
A320
ATR
42
Dash-8
Q100/200/300
BAe 146
100/200/300
Avro RJ
70/85
BAe
Jetstream 41
Boeing
737-700/800/900 incl. BBJ
Embraer
190/170 incl. Lineage
CRJ
100/200


How are they going to fulfil their obligation? This is probably more than a third of their customer base. Who is responsible for monitoring whether they breach their commitment on this front? What are the penalties if they breach this commitment?

Don't suppose Rushmoor District Council would have a clue what aircraft was Chapter 3 and which are Chapter 4 if they stood on the ramp all day with their spotter's pen and pad.
Romaro is offline  
Old 4th May 2011, 09:14
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Heres the full release from TAG

Dear Customer,
Please see below information regarding operating criteria at TAG Farnborough Airport. Following approval of the planning application for an increase in annual permitted movements, it is now appropriate to advise you of information regarding new, legally binding noise limitations for aircraft operating at TAG Farnborough Airport.

Currently, only aircraft types that are complaint with ICAO Chapter 3 criteria and above are permitted to operate. In accordance with the Airport Master Plan published in April 2009 and as a condition imposed to allow the increase in movements, noise restrictions at TAG Farnborough will be tightened to allow
only those jet aircraft meeting ICAO Chapter 4 criteria from January 1st 2013, with the exception of flying associated with the Farnborough International Airshow.

This does not mean they must hold a Chapter 4 noise certificate as only aircraft designed after 2006 may have this; however they must comply with Chapter 4 noise criteria.

Examples of types that currently operate at the airport which will not be permitted after January 1st
2013 are Cessna 560 Citation V, Dassault Falcon 20, Dassault Falcon 50, Gulfstream 3, Hawker 125-600A, Hawker 125-700A and Hawker Beechjet 400 depending on the individual engine type fitted to each aircraft.

Propeller driven aircraft with a MTOW of less than 8618kgs are exempt from this restriction.

Further information regarding criteria can be found at
EASA - Noise

We are currently collating data on all aircraft that use the airport. You will soon receive a request for noise certification information which, once verified as compliant, will allow future handling requests for specific aircraft to be accepted. If no noise certification information is received, or the aircraft is noncompliant, then handling requests post January 1st 2013 will be declined.
G-SPOTs Lost is offline  
Old 4th May 2011, 13:17
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Does anyone know the Stage 4 criteria? Numbers?

BTW, the Sov is stage 4 IF you used the newer (2009) TCDSN...

We have the Stage 3 certificate (A7)... I`ll try to get the stage 4 thing (A2489)

http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...4-03042009.pdf
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Old 4th May 2011, 16:15
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@romaro

That looks like a list of aircraft originally certified as Stage/Chapter 3 compliant. A fair number - including most still in production - are almost certainly either also Stage/Chapter 4 compliant, or could be shown to be so, otherwise they would have encountered significant sales obstacles I suspect.
Mad (Flt) Scientist is offline  
Old 4th May 2011, 18:02
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Does anyone know the Stage 4 criteria? Numbers?

BTW, the Sov is stage 4 IF you used the newer (2009) TCDSN...

We have the Stage 3 certificate (A7)... I`ll try to get the stage 4 thing (A2489)

EASA - European Aviation Safety Agency
Thanks couldn't remember what the 680 was, I watched one go off for the first time the other month and was amazed at how quiet it was....

Cant be said for that lovely howl on start up though!
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Old 4th May 2011, 19:28
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I found sumfin...:

The text of Annex 16 describing the maximum noise levels for the new Chapter 4 noise limit is as follows:

The maximum permitted noise levels are defined in Chapter 3 of Annex 16; and may not be exceeded at any of the measurement points;
and
The sum of the differences at all three measurement points between the maximum noise levels and the maximum permitted noise levels (the Stage 4 limit) specified in Chapter 3 of Annex 16 may not be less than 10 EPNdB; and
The sum of the differences at any two measurement points between the maximum noise levels and the corresponding maximum permitted noise levels specified in Chapter 3 of Annex 16 may not be less than 2 EPNdB.
(1) None of an airplane's maximum noise levels (flyover, lateral, and approach) may be greater than the maximum permitted noise levels for Chapter 3 airplanes, as defined in Annex 16; and
(2) To determine Stage 4 compliance, an airplane's maximum flyover, lateral and approach noise levels are each subtracted from the maximum permitted noise levels. The differences obtained are the noise limit margins, to be used as follows:
(a) When the three margins are added together, the total must be 10 EPNdB or greater; and
(b) When any two of the margins are added together, the sum must be 2 EPNdB or greater.
For the 680 its easy too see that it is stage 4....the sum for lateral, flyover and approach noise levels is 281dB...the Sovereign emits 250,4, the smallest difference being 6,4 for lateral noise ( 87,6 vs. 94 dB )
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Old 4th May 2011, 19:39
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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Useful database showing noise profiles

.: NoisedB - Home :.
the boy is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 08:22
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Romaro:
Rushmoor Council are VERY aware which aircraft will comply, and there are noise monitoring points to check on violations. Additionally, TAG can access radar track replays to see which aircraft deviate from NPRs.
chevvron is offline  
Old 5th May 2011, 16:59
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Join Date: May 2003
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Re-arrange the following into a well known phrase or saying...............
foot in the greedy shot have themselves TAG
Or so it seems eh?
;-)
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Old 6th May 2011, 09:13
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cambioso: you seem to forget TAG are not just the FBO, they also own and operate the airport with all the associated overheads, and the need to placate the the local council, NIMBYs and Airport Consultative Committee.
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Old 6th May 2011, 09:20
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Join Date: May 2003
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I am fully aware of the arrangements and owners at FAB.
Did they, or did they not, apply for a large increase in the number of movements?
If they did, then doesn't my (tongue in cheek) comment still apply?
It's hardly an improvement is it???
Don't get me wrong, I think TAG are a very good operator (worked for them for 2 very happy years).
Jez
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