Cheapest MPA TR
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Cheapest MPA TR
I'm in a situation that I would imagine is fairly common and I'm keen to tap into the PPRuNe network for a cheap solution!
I have a fATPL, MCC and all the requirement to unfreeze my license; except that is, a MPA TR. It's frustrating, but more importantly almost certainly affects any job application adversely). The irony is that if an airline or operator gave me a job, the required TR would immediately unfreeze my license, but because many online applications ask not only whether or not you have an ATPL, but also your license number, my answer has to be no.
What is the cheapest MPA TR available? I'm not into paying for TR's per see, but might consider a generic rating it it unfreezes the license.
Any advice??!!
I have a fATPL, MCC and all the requirement to unfreeze my license; except that is, a MPA TR. It's frustrating, but more importantly almost certainly affects any job application adversely). The irony is that if an airline or operator gave me a job, the required TR would immediately unfreeze my license, but because many online applications ask not only whether or not you have an ATPL, but also your license number, my answer has to be no.
What is the cheapest MPA TR available? I'm not into paying for TR's per see, but might consider a generic rating it it unfreezes the license.
Any advice??!!
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Hello!
There shoudn't be too many national differences left between JAR states, however take my words below with caution and ask your CAA if in doubt. This is how it works here:
You can not unfreeze your frozen ATPL simply by getting type rated on a multi-pilot aircraft. To unfreeze, you need 1.500 hours total time, of which 500 must have been flown on multi-pilot aircraft. So even with an MPA type rating in your license, you will have to fly the thing for 500 hours before you will be given your full ATPL.
Every part 25 certicied aircraft is a multi pilot aircraft. Most part 23 certified aeroplanes are not multi pilot aircraft. There are a few exceptions, though: Hours flown on so called "commuters" count towards your 500 multi-crew hours. Our aviation authority (LBA) has a downlodable list of types that qualify as commuters. Your CAA should have something similar. On "our" list, you will find types like the Metroliner (SA226/227), Dornier Do228 and Beech 1900. All of them fairly complex 19-seaters with not much automation (or none at all). I have flown some of my 500 hours on the Metroliner myself.
Coming back to your question, the cheapest type rating will be on one of the types on this list of commuters. But honestly, I would not recommend it. Spend a little more money and get rated on a real part 25 aircraft. You will get paid decent money starting with the first hour (show me a Metroliner operator who pays his pilots well...) and will recover the extra cost quickly. Depending on your career planning - airline or business aviation - the lower-end typeratings (cost-wise) will be either small turboprop airliners (Dornier Do 328, Saab 340, ATR 42 or Embraer TPs) or small part 25 bizjets (Citation 500/550/560, or one of the smaller Learjets). But please, only pay for your own type rating after having signed a working contract with your future empoyer!
Happy landings, Max
There shoudn't be too many national differences left between JAR states, however take my words below with caution and ask your CAA if in doubt. This is how it works here:
You can not unfreeze your frozen ATPL simply by getting type rated on a multi-pilot aircraft. To unfreeze, you need 1.500 hours total time, of which 500 must have been flown on multi-pilot aircraft. So even with an MPA type rating in your license, you will have to fly the thing for 500 hours before you will be given your full ATPL.
Every part 25 certicied aircraft is a multi pilot aircraft. Most part 23 certified aeroplanes are not multi pilot aircraft. There are a few exceptions, though: Hours flown on so called "commuters" count towards your 500 multi-crew hours. Our aviation authority (LBA) has a downlodable list of types that qualify as commuters. Your CAA should have something similar. On "our" list, you will find types like the Metroliner (SA226/227), Dornier Do228 and Beech 1900. All of them fairly complex 19-seaters with not much automation (or none at all). I have flown some of my 500 hours on the Metroliner myself.
Coming back to your question, the cheapest type rating will be on one of the types on this list of commuters. But honestly, I would not recommend it. Spend a little more money and get rated on a real part 25 aircraft. You will get paid decent money starting with the first hour (show me a Metroliner operator who pays his pilots well...) and will recover the extra cost quickly. Depending on your career planning - airline or business aviation - the lower-end typeratings (cost-wise) will be either small turboprop airliners (Dornier Do 328, Saab 340, ATR 42 or Embraer TPs) or small part 25 bizjets (Citation 500/550/560, or one of the smaller Learjets). But please, only pay for your own type rating after having signed a working contract with your future empoyer!
Happy landings, Max
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Thanks for your reply.
As I said in my post, I have all the requirement except the TR! I have plenty of TT and I'm MCC qualified with several thousand hours recognised multi crew.
I've done the license requirement research, I'm simply now researching the cheapest way to make it happen.
You can not unfreeze your frozen ATPL simply by getting type rated on a multi-pilot aircraft. To unfreeze, you need 1.500 hours total time, of which 500 must have been flown on multi-pilot aircraft. So even with an MPA type rating in your license, you will have to fly the thing for 500 hours before you will be given your full ATPL
I've done the license requirement research, I'm simply now researching the cheapest way to make it happen.
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Cheapest type will be a citation II, you could do it affordably in the US so no VAT standby ticket, cheap hotel.
Handy TR too covers you from a 70s vintage citation 500 all the way to the pocket rocket 2007 encore plus
FliGhtsafety have a sim in Atlanta that's cheap they'll discount a legacy sim self funded course as well, circuits with LEA in one of their 550s you may even get some freelance
Handy TR too covers you from a 70s vintage citation 500 all the way to the pocket rocket 2007 encore plus
FliGhtsafety have a sim in Atlanta that's cheap they'll discount a legacy sim self funded course as well, circuits with LEA in one of their 550s you may even get some freelance
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Whilst you are there, get your UK CPL validated for the issue of a US PPL based on the JAA license. You'll need to do a FAA Foreign Pilot IR exam 70 questions 1 hour.
At this point you can do a combined JAA/FAA checkride. The US License you have just been issued with now acts as a vessel you can "Park" that US type on..The US validated PPL now will have "US PPL Multi Engine Land, CE500" on it but more importantly "US TEST PASSED".
So if you ever do another type in the US you can do an ATP written and checkride on your new type rating and have that new type AND the CE500 type put straight onto your new FAA ATP, alternatively if you go back to the Citation Sim for a recurrent then you can have the ATP checkride done in the Citation recurrent.
So from no ATPs to ATPs x 2 - Bargain!
Edited to say that TR on two licenses covers you for for around 1600 airframes - theres probably less 757's!!!!!!
At this point you can do a combined JAA/FAA checkride. The US License you have just been issued with now acts as a vessel you can "Park" that US type on..The US validated PPL now will have "US PPL Multi Engine Land, CE500" on it but more importantly "US TEST PASSED".
So if you ever do another type in the US you can do an ATP written and checkride on your new type rating and have that new type AND the CE500 type put straight onto your new FAA ATP, alternatively if you go back to the Citation Sim for a recurrent then you can have the ATP checkride done in the Citation recurrent.
So from no ATPs to ATPs x 2 - Bargain!
Edited to say that TR on two licenses covers you for for around 1600 airframes - theres probably less 757's!!!!!!
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"At this point you can do a combined JAA/FAA checkride."
Actually this may no longer be possible. When I was at CAE SimuFlite for recurrent in March I was told they no longer combine the JAA and FAA checkrides into one ride, but two separate ones. This is not per FAA request but CAE who believe the two rides differ too much to do it all at once. Not sure why it was OK for so many years, but this appears to be the latest on the matter.
A friend of mine who also holds both FAA and JAA (or is it EASA now?) licenses with the type he's currently flying was not able to combine his rides during recurrent at Bombardier DFW.
Now, since this is not a regulation put in place by the FAA it may differ between the training centers, so I advise you to do some research according to your personal situation.
Actually this may no longer be possible. When I was at CAE SimuFlite for recurrent in March I was told they no longer combine the JAA and FAA checkrides into one ride, but two separate ones. This is not per FAA request but CAE who believe the two rides differ too much to do it all at once. Not sure why it was OK for so many years, but this appears to be the latest on the matter.
A friend of mine who also holds both FAA and JAA (or is it EASA now?) licenses with the type he's currently flying was not able to combine his rides during recurrent at Bombardier DFW.
Now, since this is not a regulation put in place by the FAA it may differ between the training centers, so I advise you to do some research according to your personal situation.
Last edited by FlyTCI; 2nd May 2011 at 13:53.
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Actually now you mention it, I did a progressive 61.58 last week and then a separate JAA LPC, I thought it was down to evaluator scheduling but I guess the new recommendations might be at play.
Details aside if you pay for a TR squeeze very ounce of training and licenses you can from it, High Altitude training, RVSM, PRNAV. The FSI WILL have a deal and will do discounts, also check out sitcom,cae and all the others but in the main FSI hold the most joint JAA/FAA courses
Details aside if you pay for a TR squeeze very ounce of training and licenses you can from it, High Altitude training, RVSM, PRNAV. The FSI WILL have a deal and will do discounts, also check out sitcom,cae and all the others but in the main FSI hold the most joint JAA/FAA courses
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For the FAA stuff I sat the writtens at EGLF, then did a two day flight instruction in Houston and then took the flying test... FAA ATP , thank you very much...
You don't even need a JAA ATPL just the flying hours... Although the ATPL is a must with jobs nowadays...
Goodluck
You don't even need a JAA ATPL just the flying hours... Although the ATPL is a must with jobs nowadays...
Goodluck
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I have my Commercial pilot license with MI and IR with a total hours 405 hours. I have not flown in over 8 years but looking to make a career change and get back into flying with the intention of building time and work for the airlines or a charter company. I am 34 years old and don't have a lot of time to kick start my flight career. I was looking into doing a type rating with a company that guarantee employment. But from what I am reading a lot of people seems like they are against it? Eagle jet in Florida offers different type rating with 500 hours and 1 year contract guarantee employment. In my case not wanting to do my CFI and build hours that way, why wouldn't this be a good idea. Not only would I have over 900 hours after the program ends, but, I have a chance to build more hours by working for them and gain experience. However, since I’ve been out of the aviation community for awhile. I really will appreciate any advice and or recommendations.
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Any someone please give me some feedback regarding the post below:
I have my Commercial pilot license( FAA) with MI and IR with a total hours 405 hours. I have not flown in over 8 years but looking to make a career change and get back into flying with the intention of building time and work for the airlines or a charter company. I am 34 years old and don't have a lot of time to kick start my flight career. I was looking into doing a type rating with a company that guarantee employment. But from what I am reading a lot of people seems like they are against it? Eagle jet in Florida offers different type rating with 500 hours and 1 year contract guarantee employment. In my case not wanting to do my CFI and build hours that way, why wouldn't this be a good idea. Not only would I have over 900 hours after the program ends, but, I have a chance to build more hours by working for them and gain experience. However, since I’ve been out of the aviation community for awhile. I really will appreciate any advice and or recommendations
I have my Commercial pilot license( FAA) with MI and IR with a total hours 405 hours. I have not flown in over 8 years but looking to make a career change and get back into flying with the intention of building time and work for the airlines or a charter company. I am 34 years old and don't have a lot of time to kick start my flight career. I was looking into doing a type rating with a company that guarantee employment. But from what I am reading a lot of people seems like they are against it? Eagle jet in Florida offers different type rating with 500 hours and 1 year contract guarantee employment. In my case not wanting to do my CFI and build hours that way, why wouldn't this be a good idea. Not only would I have over 900 hours after the program ends, but, I have a chance to build more hours by working for them and gain experience. However, since I’ve been out of the aviation community for awhile. I really will appreciate any advice and or recommendations
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My main recommendation is to start your own thread and stop hijacking mine!!
On a serious note, paying for a TR sticks in my throat and I would not do it on the demand of a proposed employer. I consider my possible willingness to pay for a generic rating to unfreeze my license as very different, although I accept that not everyone will agree that there's a difference.
Paying for a TR and then paying a company again, just for them to allow you the pleasure of flying for them is madness.
My understanding of employment 101 is: You go to work, you get paid. Going to work and paying for the pleasure of doing so.......... are you f*****g mad??!!
Now, please don't turn this thread into the merits (or not) of self funding ratings. I'm still looking for any more suggestions on a cheap MPA TR?
On a serious note, paying for a TR sticks in my throat and I would not do it on the demand of a proposed employer. I consider my possible willingness to pay for a generic rating to unfreeze my license as very different, although I accept that not everyone will agree that there's a difference.
Paying for a TR and then paying a company again, just for them to allow you the pleasure of flying for them is madness.
My understanding of employment 101 is: You go to work, you get paid. Going to work and paying for the pleasure of doing so.......... are you f*****g mad??!!
Now, please don't turn this thread into the merits (or not) of self funding ratings. I'm still looking for any more suggestions on a cheap MPA TR?
Tlawrence2424
Don't consider it, the job market is terrible, the regional jobs will leave you a burned out, miserable person in 5 years. I interviewed a very unhappy regional captain today, no progression, unsure how long some of the regionals will last, little mainline hiring. He wanted out now, unfortunately, that came thru in the interview. You have to be lucky to make it and a vast number of other careers will offer a better future.
GF
Don't consider it, the job market is terrible, the regional jobs will leave you a burned out, miserable person in 5 years. I interviewed a very unhappy regional captain today, no progression, unsure how long some of the regionals will last, little mainline hiring. He wanted out now, unfortunately, that came thru in the interview. You have to be lucky to make it and a vast number of other careers will offer a better future.
GF
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FAA ATP or Foreign Based Private
Just a quick warning!
I have recently been told by an examiner at the FAA office in New York, that it is not possible to do ATP directly if you already have an FAA Private issued. Even if it is based on a foreign license it is still a full value FAA Private Pilot License.
So you might want to be careful with having an FAA Foreign Based Private issued to you, as this might come in the way of you doing the ATP checkride without first going through the usual steps of acquiring a Commercial. I have recently advised a guy to instead hold off on the Foreign Based license, study a bit, and then go take an FAA ATP written, then the checkride together with the recurrent type rating.
Also note that according to one Simulator Training Center they can not put a Type Rating on a License out of a recurrent. That should only be possible through an initial or upgrade course. Alas you will be able to do an FAA ATP checkride within the recurrent course you issued ATP will be 'naked' (without the type rating). This is even so if you have been flying the specific type for thousands of hours.
Have Fun
CP
I have recently been told by an examiner at the FAA office in New York, that it is not possible to do ATP directly if you already have an FAA Private issued. Even if it is based on a foreign license it is still a full value FAA Private Pilot License.
So you might want to be careful with having an FAA Foreign Based Private issued to you, as this might come in the way of you doing the ATP checkride without first going through the usual steps of acquiring a Commercial. I have recently advised a guy to instead hold off on the Foreign Based license, study a bit, and then go take an FAA ATP written, then the checkride together with the recurrent type rating.
Also note that according to one Simulator Training Center they can not put a Type Rating on a License out of a recurrent. That should only be possible through an initial or upgrade course. Alas you will be able to do an FAA ATP checkride within the recurrent course you issued ATP will be 'naked' (without the type rating). This is even so if you have been flying the specific type for thousands of hours.
Have Fun
CP
