Bullied by the Boss?

[kamanya]

There is speculation on our local forum that the PIC may have been bullied into trying a questionable landing by the Boss (CEO of business that owned/rented the jet) that resulted in a crash being fatal to all.

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...th-africa.html

Whether the speculation is true or not, is there a precedent for this in your experience? How do you deal with it?

Some Chairmen, Presidents and CEO's can be pretty forceful.

[His dudeness]

Whether the speculation is true or not, is there a precedent for this in your experience? How do you deal with it?

Some Chairmen, Presidents and CEO's can be pretty forceful.

At my present position its nearly viceversa, the boss being very, very interested in his safety, he would ask us after every landing that is not conducted in VMC wether this was dangerous....

But back to the q, as an air taxi pilot I had these issues regurlarly at hand, canīt really say there is a 'one does it all' solution to it. Some need forceful feedback, some need convincing that it is not just us being to lazy, some need to be reminded that we donīt wanīt to be forced into unlawful actions.
Most I have to say, have not exerted pressure. But then, some of us feel pressure just by being asked "can we land?"

What you have to have in hand though is a second solution. Like, "well, Iīm sorry, but Farnborough is closed for weather, we can get you to Luton and have a limo ready and reposition to Fab when the wx has improved to pick you up later in order not to hurt your schedule more then necessary". If you can provide a new calculation and what time penalty is involved you have done your homework correctly.
Also, when in doubt bout the wx, I tell my guests up front that we might need to divert and ask which alternate (obviously one mentions only the ones that should work) would be more convinient should the need arise...

Just standing there saying no, not poss, is definately not to the liking of most pax I flew yet...

All in all, just use common sense.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

HD is right but...

That's the theory, but sometimes the PIC makes the call, and for whatever reason the VVIP has many times put pressure on the crew to operate outside their comfort zone, That is the crews responsabililty to determine.

Once we took the VVIP, who sat in the jump seat, on a mins ILS (due FOG) to Venice.....he never saw the ground, and when we landed in Treviso, he then drove to Venice, as he passed Marco Polo his drive complained that at 50kph, it was dangerous, the boss then upon his collection, stated that he would never question our policy in future.

End of that story, but not the end of the VVIP who shouts loudly, and continues to bully the crew.
glf

[LGW Vulture]

One probably just has to have a look at the Polish Presidential Flight thread to see what any kind of pressure gets exerted when the Boss is in charge!

[DERG]

The Closet Technique

Politely ask the supervision to take a look at the reason of your decision which is in the closet and of "some urgency". Make sure he or she enters first. When the door is shut advise as necessary. Always works well.

[Miles Magister]

Bullying

It happened to me once, I just gave the CEO the aircraft keys right there and then and walked off. Of course you have to be old, ugly and have no mortgage to do that but you can do it politely.

Take care, be polite and try not to get upset then walk as soon as you can making sure you are still alive to walk.

MM

[dc10fr8k9]

Good advice

"Take care, be polite and try not to get upset then walk as soon as you can making sure you are still alive to walk."

Excellent and eloquent advice Miles Magister.

I have always said it is better to be unemployed for a little while than dead for a long time. And better to arrive late in this world than early in the next.

Fly safe all, and remember who's the boss when the door is closed! Not the CEO, not the President. The PIC is boss. and if he/she forgets that, then trouble is brewing.

[PLovett]

IIRC the G3 that crashed at Aspen back in 2001 had pax pressure as one of the causes alongside other shortcomings.

Aspen Crash

[aviatn]

A similar occurrence had happened to me as well. Moscow Vnukovo was snowed in and had closed the airport for about 20 minutes to clear the runways of snow which had fallen just earlier. We were put in a Russian hold.
My colleague spoke with the pax to inform him of the delay. The guy replied in a very harsh voice that he doesn’t care and “ordered” him to land.
He aslo told him to call a number on the ground to obtain the necessary clearance. My colleague didn’t stand up to pressure very well and actually called the number given.
The result was that this individual on the phone had no clue who we were and we stayed in the “hold” for about 20 minutes.
It is harder for some to stand up to pressures applied.

[BeCareful]

"Sir/Your Highness/Your Excellency, you are paying me to keep you safe, and that's what I am doing. We cannot land here due to weather being below landing minima. However, here are your choices, select one and we'll make it happen."

If they're insistent, you say "Sir, I am sorry, but I will not risk your life and lives of everyone else onboard. Our destination is not an option due to weather being below SAFE (gotta throw this in instead of legal) landing minima, but here are our viable options. Please choose one, and we'll make it happen."

The trick is, you have to make them feel in charge without letting them kill you. That's what you do by giving them choice of other options and letting them choose that option. If you stand your ground firmly, but politely, your clients will definitely respect your more.

[sovereign680]

In more than 20 years of corporate flying, including a lot of CJ single pilot flying. I walked away two times, a third time I did not show up to fly a CJ over gross weight across the north Atlantic.(That private pilot owner tried / used 12 pilots in the 3 years since he got the aircraft, he offered me a contract in which I had to waive the authority of pilot in command) In all cases I was out of a job after it. But I would do it again.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Pilots that are weak enough to be bullied, normally end up making the headlines.

In the battle of job vs survival, there can only ever be one victor.

[BestAviation]

A failed culture of safety

There was a really good article in B&C Aviation this month dealing with the issue of receiving pressure from the boss to do things that may very well kill you.

SmithKline/Quest - the largest part 91 [private] operator I the US had a horrendous safety culture, and when pilots where interviewed why they let themselves pressure into some of the things they did, the common answer was "well, I also have a mortgage to pay".

it took them 5 fatal accidents before someone more levelheaded (NTSB) decided to investigate what was going on within the company's culture.

Should be compulsory reading for everyone - A Failed Culture of Safety | AVIATION WEEK

[PBY]

I am a safety bully. I bully the bullies. They seem to respond well, because a bully understands another bully. It is the weak and too polite types, who in my opinion have problems with bullies. So far I have lost job because of that only twice. But once it does not count, because I got it back 3 days later. The other case, I have quit the job myself.
I never understand, how people can exchange life for job. How can they be afraid of loosing job, but not afraid of loosing life.
May be, I have to learn, how to be polite with those guys. That could be my weakness. But as I said, being polite only seems to make the problem worse.
The best is to say, shut up and sit down. Now I am the president. After we land, you are the president.

[DERG]

The Greasy Pole Climbers

PBY..oh yes. The problem is that we are only maybe 5% of the population that has the guts to do that.

More often than not it is the middle managers who are so ignorant. The boss often can clearly see the benefit. If the boss cannot see the benefit then you walk away.

I call the middle managers "the greasy pole climbers". Save $5 today and next year the company pays a $5000 dollar cost.

[411A]

Many years ago, when I was the overseas aviation department manager for a quite large international company, the local area manager desired the flight crews to fly 7 days per week, as the local branch was very busy.
This was not acceptable, as the duty days were quite long, so I told the guy it was not possible.
This fellow had a hissy fit, so...I picked up the telephone and called the company chairman in LosAngeles (3am his time) and appraised him of the situation.
The chairman asked to speak to the local area manager.
It was a very short conversation...the local manager was told in no uncertain terms that the aviation manager reported directly to the company chairman, and no one else.
Slight problem solved.

[theficklefinger]

Most pilots can't fly to the defined performance capabilities of the aircraft that the boss bought. It's just a classic case of the boss buying more plane then pilot. If you can't fly with the seats full, and in the weather, down to minimums, into tight fields, go do something else. The reciprocal of this concept is pilots never getting out of the aircraft they are flying because the boss is so tickled pink that you can make a Citation fly GIV loads, down to minimums, into small strips, single pilot, and burn 1/9th the fuel his buddy is paying and he still has to drive to get to where you landed. I guess I never learned to feign incompetence under the guise that the aircraft wasn't capable enough to get the job done, ergo, we need to buy a bigger plane.

[hawker750]

I guess most, or all of the posts, here are from corporate flyers and it seems the attitude is that the bosses may bully and it can compromise safety. So surely this is a good example of why your sector should be regulated with a "private AOC" and Ops manual. In charter we do not get bulied because all we have to do (if necessary) is quote the manual, which is the law. If the pax don't like it they can go hassle another operator. QED.
I know a lot of you have expressed concern about the forthcoming regulation of your sector but from what has been said here it seems long overdue.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

15 replies all of them historical, 10 of them anecdotal does not a problem make.

It may seem wierd to those that prostitute themselves to the CAA by way of putting up with Airline levels of Bull**** to do a chartered Geneva daystop that there is a corner of the industry that can easily self regulate and simply get things done for private owners who have no interest in sharing their aircraft with others.

Its worked for years without intervention, whilst I welcome improvements in CRM, Simulator Technology and groundschool refresher training (the latter of which will be foreign to some AOC operators) there seems little point in documenting best practise when its happening anyway - whos going to audit us the boss?

Why regulate for regulations sake, its almost like you're trying to share the pain that you're made to suffer. You all made your bed by choosing to operate for hire and reward and put yourself under commercial financial pressure,I would suggest that you pull the blanket up and get on with it and leave those who operate in the purely corporate and private leisure arena to themselves.

With the recession, reduced experience levels of captains and the desire to continue to operate in a market which has too much capacity, its the AOC holders that require closest scrutiny. The FOI's wont have time for private operators.

Whats next FOI's for PPL's

[DERG]

whos going to audit us the boss?

Litigation during corporate manslaughter proceedings.

Once a case has been recorded like this A Failed Culture of Safety | AVIATION WEEK

following offenses can be classified. Once the high court has found that "the boss" is guilty then comes the sanction. The old days are ending.