Flight Number Attached to individual Aircrafts

[ChePety]

Hi everyone,

A long time has passed since the last time I've posted anything on PPRuNe. I am now the Ground OPS manager and Supervisor of FLT OPS of a BizJet operator. So far all of the company's flights (commercial or others) have been flying with the aircraft Registration as the flight number/callsign. As the number and frequency of the flights are increasing though they asked me to find out how to obtain flight numbers. As a humble citizen I went to the national authority of the AOC holder and received the answer, that

a. I should go back and read some more before I ask stupid questions and bother the almighty authority with questions of all sorts.

b. Flight numbers are for scheduled flights and charter flights - Period. And why is it a problem to fly under registration, it was good enough for the previous management (operating 4 Cessna 152-s and a couple of Pipers for PPL holding owners) it should be good enough for us too. Not to mention that - as per the Civil Aviation Authority's answer - Flight numbers can not be the same for both legs, because the "system won't accept it" (they literally hung up the phone when I asked what if the flight goes BRU-LUX-ZRH-GVA, telling me to not bother the CAA with such matters)

Now I might really be the idiot I feel now, but so far nobody could clearly explain to me the process of establishing Flight numbers to individual aircrafts, and than flying with those. I know for a fact that most commercial operators do that all over the place.

The company I'm working for has an AOC, 4 frequently flying business jets on that AOC as well as a couple of light twins that also do frequent commercial flights. It has the 3 letter ICAO identifier as well as a unique callsign, but it has never used either of those.

I would appreciate if someone could take the time and point me in the right direction, regarding the steps necessary to start flying with flight numbers. Whether I need the approval of the CAA for that, If it is enough to regulate it in the OM, if I need to notify the local ATC services somehow.

I appreciate any help from anyone, who has experience on this matter.

Regards
CP

[choxs]

Hi CP

I too have had the same situation in the past. Its not easy and it does feel like your hitting your head against a brick wall sometimes.

However, the best people to speak to are Euro Control - they were excellent. Cant remember a specific name but seriously, give them a call. They will be able to help and point you in the right direct.

Best Regards

Choxs

[cldrvr]

If you have the ICAO 3-letter and callsign, start using it to your heart's content. Add the reg to the remarks section.

As to a multi leg of one "flight" use letters in the end of flight numbers to differentiate, some use dedicated letters, such as "p" for positioning, "t" for training.

[epsum]

We use same number for the same a/c on separate flight plans. Never had a problem for it, for example TLL-HEL-GVA with flight number XXX122 and GVA-HEL-TLL with XXX123, despite having separate flight plans for TLL - HEL and HEL - GVA. As far as I know, our ops will send fpls at the same time, but I do not have a slightest idea, how the 'black magic' in atc works.

[mutt]

Flight numbers can not be the same for both legs, because the "system won't accept it"

We do this all the time, we assign flight numbers to clients and can routinely fly with the same flight number all month. No one objects.

Mutt

[dirk85]

We happen to do ten or more legs trips with the same flight number, never had any problem.
I don't know in any case the procedures to get an ICAO code, if you don't have one.

[GLJ Dispatch]

Hi all,

There is no limit when it comes to using one flight number for several legs. Flying the whole year with one and only one flight number is totally legal. With regards to the company callsign, I believe you have to request it via ICAO. First of the desired combination should be available and if I'm not mistaken there needs to be some kind of logic in the callsign. From a practical point of view, some operators use different callsigns per leg to identify these costs per leg. From a dispatchers point of view, I would prefer one and the same callsign every leg. Especially with permissions, this will make life much easier.

Cheers,

GLJ Dispatch

[ChePety]

Thanks every one for the replies.

The
"Flight numbers can not be the same for both legs, because the "system won't accept it"
part was meant in irony, as it was the official reply indicating how unprepared the local CAA is for "non-standard" solutions. They have only heard of scheduled and chartered airline flights using flight numbers, but not - what in their opinion are - small operators.

Basically what I have found out so far is, that as soon as you have an ICAO identifier and a call sign (the company does) all you have to do is regulate the usage of flight numbers in the company manual (not necessarily the OM), notify the ATC Services and off you go.

I will let you all know how things have worked out. Thanks for all the help.
CP

[flyingfemme]

Your 3 letter ICAO code is the flight number mechanism. Add anything you please to the end of it for filing purposes.
You can use the same flight number for any number of aircraft, flight plans or legs as long as they do not overlap. The system will kick out anything that it sees as a duplicate.
The main difference between filing flight nos and tail nos is that the nav charges for any flight filed with a flight number will be sent to the owner of the ICAO code and to the registered owner of the aircraft when filed with a tail number.
If you are going to assign a flight number to an individual aircraft and always use the same then there is little point in having a code. Just tell Eurocontrol that the AOC holder is responsible for the charges on that aircraft and you get the same result.
Flight numbers are useful for managing charges and rebilling data - some people use a date-based flight number so they can reconcile charges that arrive. Some (airlines) use a route-based flight number so that they always know where a flight plan is going, regardless of the physical aircraft doing the leg.
You might want to use flight numbers as a way of reconciling different aircraft flying for the same purpose or customer..........

[Chox Off]

flyingfemme has it spot on.

Just as an aside there are ways of coding your flight numbers to make them practical for your operation.
An example would be xxx123 where 1 is the day of the week(Mon), 2 is the sector number, and three is your client. So xxx549 would be....(answers please!) There are many options as you can imagine. Have a play around.

Finally if your getting the sort of response you received from your National Authority, I suggest you call other national authorities as bounce your questions off them. I think you'll get a far more helpful response than the one you did.

[chevvron]

I know of one operator who uses the serial number of the page in the Tech Log relevant for that flight after his ICAO 3 letter code.

[Don Coyote]

ICAO Doc 8585 has the list of registered callsigns and information on how to get a 3 letter designator and who to contact.

I believe that once you get the registered 3 letter designator then you can add numbers to it as required.