CL 604 Fuel Transfer on the Ground
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CL 604 Fuel Transfer on the Ground
Dear All,
I had a fuel imbalance issue today ,and I need an advice on fuel transfer for the CL 604.
After lading I had 4200 lb in left tank,4700 in the right and nothing in the AUX.After shut down we transfer fuel to AUX(R to AUX) in order to even the wings ,but we forgot to monitor, and we have ended up with more than 1000 lb in the Aux tank and still fuel imbalance between the main tanks(4300 left-3600 right).According limitations we can take off with more then 500 lb in the auxiliary tank only if the main tanks are full.Which was not the case!!!
My quest is how do you transfer fuel on the ground from Aux to the wing ?
Appreciate any help.
I had a fuel imbalance issue today ,and I need an advice on fuel transfer for the CL 604.
After lading I had 4200 lb in left tank,4700 in the right and nothing in the AUX.After shut down we transfer fuel to AUX(R to AUX) in order to even the wings ,but we forgot to monitor, and we have ended up with more than 1000 lb in the Aux tank and still fuel imbalance between the main tanks(4300 left-3600 right).According limitations we can take off with more then 500 lb in the auxiliary tank only if the main tanks are full.Which was not the case!!!
My quest is how do you transfer fuel on the ground from Aux to the wing ?
Appreciate any help.
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Original question remains HOW
I would like to know, just for the record, how to transfer.
Also I was a 601 driver, and after leaving the aircraft on a sloping apron, left wing low, overnight had 2000 lbs out of balance.
How do you use gravity to lift the fuel to the high tank.
In practice we started on the fuller tank, taxied on it and when possble tried to transfer when taxi. BUT no improvement.
Eventually, (no fuel facility at this airport), took off with 2000 Lbs imbalance. Flew pefectly normally, no adverse trim needed, or heavy wing problems.
hfr
Also I was a 601 driver, and after leaving the aircraft on a sloping apron, left wing low, overnight had 2000 lbs out of balance.
How do you use gravity to lift the fuel to the high tank.
In practice we started on the fuller tank, taxied on it and when possble tried to transfer when taxi. BUT no improvement.
Eventually, (no fuel facility at this airport), took off with 2000 Lbs imbalance. Flew pefectly normally, no adverse trim needed, or heavy wing problems.
hfr
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turnit round was a good plan
But it took over 12 hours to transfer with the valve closed, so how long would it take, with the crossflow valve open and a 1 degree slope.
As to using the pump, I also remember something that suggested that it would only transfer in the air.
But what about the original question.????
hfr
As to using the pump, I also remember something that suggested that it would only transfer in the air.
But what about the original question.????
hfr
Here are the rules:
Rule 1 Never, ever, go "L (R) to Aux" and let your eyes wander. Every 604 guy has done it, don't feel bad.
Rule 2: Whenever operating on one engine--only have its associated pump on.
As noted, there is a chart on how to operate the plane with fuel in excess of 500# in the Aux and less than full wings. There is a restriction at high fuel weights, but it is pretty hard to get there. At your fuel weights, there would have been no problem taking off, if within balance limits.
Now to your question:
After using "L (R) to Aux" to get the fuel in balance, wing-to-wing; turn OFF the L (R) to Aux and turn on both boost pumps to evenly transfer the fuel out of the aux tanks and into the wings. As per Rule 1, do NOT get distracted, leaving the pumps on WILL cause another imbalance. If you use the APU for long periods, like waiting for the Boss, you will have to do this about every hour or so.
NOTE: This will work ONLY if the wings are below 93% full and will stop at the 93% level. That is about 4400 pounds in each wing.
In your case, I probably would have left the right wing where it was and burned even the next time I fired it up.
GF
Rule 1 Never, ever, go "L (R) to Aux" and let your eyes wander. Every 604 guy has done it, don't feel bad.
Rule 2: Whenever operating on one engine--only have its associated pump on.
As noted, there is a chart on how to operate the plane with fuel in excess of 500# in the Aux and less than full wings. There is a restriction at high fuel weights, but it is pretty hard to get there. At your fuel weights, there would have been no problem taking off, if within balance limits.
Now to your question:
After using "L (R) to Aux" to get the fuel in balance, wing-to-wing; turn OFF the L (R) to Aux and turn on both boost pumps to evenly transfer the fuel out of the aux tanks and into the wings. As per Rule 1, do NOT get distracted, leaving the pumps on WILL cause another imbalance. If you use the APU for long periods, like waiting for the Boss, you will have to do this about every hour or so.
NOTE: This will work ONLY if the wings are below 93% full and will stop at the 93% level. That is about 4400 pounds in each wing.
In your case, I probably would have left the right wing where it was and burned even the next time I fired it up.
GF
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galaxy flyer: Thank you for the answer.I wish I knew that earlier.I must say that the fuel system on this aircraft is probably the most complicated one I've ever seen.
I'll definitely wright this down and have it with me if such case arises again.
Thanks to all of you fellows for the replies and help.
cskafan
I'll definitely wright this down and have it with me if such case arises again.
Thanks to all of you fellows for the replies and help.
cskafan
cska123
One problem is that the fuel transfer is slow, so the tendency to get distracted is high.
The fuel system is a legacy from the earlier models, the complications come from the 600 when they stuffed fuel in every crevice possible to get the range. As one of the instructors at YUL says, "simple system, no need for synoptic pages, now please turn to FUEL system Abnormals, all 22 of them!"
When there is fuel in the Aux tanks, one can make a passable effort at in-flight balancing by rudder trimming into the high tank, the ball will be displaced to the low tank. It takes only the smallest amount. A slip or skid seems to throw the wing-to-wing balance out quite quickly sometimes. I think, by trimming, you are preventing the high wing from taking fuel from the AUX tanks. There is no systematic reason for it to work, but it does.
Also, be aware of this situation--there are long taxi-out delays and you leave the blocks with a full load of fuel for a long sector. Leave the APU running for better air-conditioning and you will be out of balance eventually. You cannot go L (R) to AUX because the AUX tanks are full and you cannot transfer thru the gravity feet line.
SOLUTION: Shut down the right engine, balance will be regained because the left engine burns more than the APU. Or think it thru before start-up and taxi-out on the left engine. BUT, you must turn off that right boost pump. WATCH the fuel like a hawk in this case. This is a rare event, but I learned that on a 90-minute taxi-out in Delhi after running the APU for about 2 hours. Yes, a long day.
GF
One problem is that the fuel transfer is slow, so the tendency to get distracted is high.
The fuel system is a legacy from the earlier models, the complications come from the 600 when they stuffed fuel in every crevice possible to get the range. As one of the instructors at YUL says, "simple system, no need for synoptic pages, now please turn to FUEL system Abnormals, all 22 of them!"
When there is fuel in the Aux tanks, one can make a passable effort at in-flight balancing by rudder trimming into the high tank, the ball will be displaced to the low tank. It takes only the smallest amount. A slip or skid seems to throw the wing-to-wing balance out quite quickly sometimes. I think, by trimming, you are preventing the high wing from taking fuel from the AUX tanks. There is no systematic reason for it to work, but it does.
Also, be aware of this situation--there are long taxi-out delays and you leave the blocks with a full load of fuel for a long sector. Leave the APU running for better air-conditioning and you will be out of balance eventually. You cannot go L (R) to AUX because the AUX tanks are full and you cannot transfer thru the gravity feet line.
SOLUTION: Shut down the right engine, balance will be regained because the left engine burns more than the APU. Or think it thru before start-up and taxi-out on the left engine. BUT, you must turn off that right boost pump. WATCH the fuel like a hawk in this case. This is a rare event, but I learned that on a 90-minute taxi-out in Delhi after running the APU for about 2 hours. Yes, a long day.
GF
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Hi !
Just take this case.
You have full fuel, Wings + Aux + Tail, all full.
You have to wait for more then 2 hours with the APU running and sucking the right Wing below your balance Limit of 400lbs for Take off.
There is no choice given from the System to get back into balance.
The only way to do is, pull the CB of the right Fuel Pump, switch on the pumps and start the right Engine.
Because the Fuel Pumps deliver more then the Engine will need, the Return Flow will logically go into the right Tank with the right Engine running.
This is the only way to get Fuel back in the Wings on ground.
Tested it, Did it and amazed a lot of people with it.
Take care
Just take this case.
You have full fuel, Wings + Aux + Tail, all full.
You have to wait for more then 2 hours with the APU running and sucking the right Wing below your balance Limit of 400lbs for Take off.
There is no choice given from the System to get back into balance.
The only way to do is, pull the CB of the right Fuel Pump, switch on the pumps and start the right Engine.
Because the Fuel Pumps deliver more then the Engine will need, the Return Flow will logically go into the right Tank with the right Engine running.
This is the only way to get Fuel back in the Wings on ground.
Tested it, Did it and amazed a lot of people with it.
Take care
