HAWKER 900xp
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germany
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the greatest advantage in my eyes is, that you can fill it up with 8 pax and still go full fuel. I don't know other aircraft in this class which are able to do that. Very reliable.
greatest disadvatage: lack of luggage space. no outside luggage compartment. with 8 pax going on a long several-day-trip you definetly have a problem.
greatest disadvatage: lack of luggage space. no outside luggage compartment. with 8 pax going on a long several-day-trip you definetly have a problem.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eire/HK
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6.7% Better, The 750 is range limited, and the baggage compartment is useless. The 850 is great, and can go full fuel, full pax but has to step climb, the 900 takes off in 1000 ft less in RUH, and can get much higher much quicker at max gross than the 850. All in all a nice improvement on a good airframe.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In Exile...
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Cabin layout on the Hawkers doesn't work if you've got a full load, the sofa's not big enough for 3 people for any great period of time. Added to if you've got 8 people with a suitcase each there's nowhere to put one.
The Sovereign does a better of lifting 6+ people, it's got a bigger hold, is longer and cheaper.
The Sovereign does a better of lifting 6+ people, it's got a bigger hold, is longer and cheaper.
Join Date: Jan 2001
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well I don't think that the question was "which one of the competitors is better". But if it was:
It is of course depending on what you want. For me the full-pax-full-fuel point is a great issue. For some other operations it might not.
all the competitors are unable to go full-fuel-full-pax. CL 300, G200, G250, Sovereign- all the same.
If you are thinking of buying a new aircraft and money is not the issue, I would think of a Hawker 4000. Full-pax-full-fuel, and the luggage problem of the HS125 definetly solved. But don't buy one of the first serial numbers. And make sure that the new, redesigned toilet is available.
It is of course depending on what you want. For me the full-pax-full-fuel point is a great issue. For some other operations it might not.
all the competitors are unable to go full-fuel-full-pax. CL 300, G200, G250, Sovereign- all the same.
If you are thinking of buying a new aircraft and money is not the issue, I would think of a Hawker 4000. Full-pax-full-fuel, and the luggage problem of the HS125 definetly solved. But don't buy one of the first serial numbers. And make sure that the new, redesigned toilet is available.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eire/HK
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Sovereign is $17 000 000, Hawker 900 is $14 000 000. Full fuel, Sovereign does 2800 nm, Hawker 900 does 2900 nm, Eight pax, Sovereign does 2500 nm, Hawker 900 still does 2900 nm.
If you know how to pack a Hawker, you can carry a decent load.
If you know how to pack a Hawker, you can carry a decent load.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 59
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My experience
I fly a 900XP, Based in Australia.
I have about 500 hrs in command on it
Pros -
Yes you can load it up with full pax and full fuel.
It is almost impossible to get the CG out of balance.
It will go straight to 38,000 at MGTOW, and to 41,000 after an hour. (we generally have ISA +10)
It will give you around 6.5 hours endurance (Landing with 1500lbs in tanks) at 410kts TAS
It is a STRONG Solid airframe
Proline 21 Avionics are a dream to use.
It is very agile but stable (I recently flew Perth to Sydney 1700nm at 39,000 with no autopilot)
CONS - Luggage space
Luggage Space
Luggage Space
It is a great 4-5 pax aircraft, once you have 8 Pax with overnight bags, things get really squeezy.
I often joke that packing the luggage is like playing a game of tetris....
Uses LOTS of runway for a small jet.
There is NO way it could do 2900nm. You would be landing with unrealistic reserves.
I have flown it at M 0.70 for 6.5 hours (2400nm air range) and we landed with 1600lbs remaining (one hour reserve)
Overall, I love flying the plane. It makes short work of Australia, and will fly Perth - Sydney in around 3.5 hours..
It will also fly Sydney - Perth in around 5.5 hours (typical winds 80 - 90 kts headwind when flying west)
It will fly Sydney - Perth non stop in any winds up to around 120kts average headwind.. greater than this and you need a refuel stop.
For anyone interested I have a very accurate Excel based W and B sheet for our aircraft.. I'm happy to forward to anyone who would like to play around with it and see what the aircraft can do.... EDIT.. I have had so many requests for this I have posted a link... you can download it here..
http://74.50.85.67/900xp/900XP.xls
Cheers
I have about 500 hrs in command on it
Pros -
Yes you can load it up with full pax and full fuel.
It is almost impossible to get the CG out of balance.
It will go straight to 38,000 at MGTOW, and to 41,000 after an hour. (we generally have ISA +10)
It will give you around 6.5 hours endurance (Landing with 1500lbs in tanks) at 410kts TAS
It is a STRONG Solid airframe
Proline 21 Avionics are a dream to use.
It is very agile but stable (I recently flew Perth to Sydney 1700nm at 39,000 with no autopilot)
CONS - Luggage space
Luggage Space
Luggage Space
It is a great 4-5 pax aircraft, once you have 8 Pax with overnight bags, things get really squeezy.
I often joke that packing the luggage is like playing a game of tetris....
Uses LOTS of runway for a small jet.
There is NO way it could do 2900nm. You would be landing with unrealistic reserves.
I have flown it at M 0.70 for 6.5 hours (2400nm air range) and we landed with 1600lbs remaining (one hour reserve)
Overall, I love flying the plane. It makes short work of Australia, and will fly Perth - Sydney in around 3.5 hours..
It will also fly Sydney - Perth in around 5.5 hours (typical winds 80 - 90 kts headwind when flying west)
It will fly Sydney - Perth non stop in any winds up to around 120kts average headwind.. greater than this and you need a refuel stop.
For anyone interested I have a very accurate Excel based W and B sheet for our aircraft.. I'm happy to forward to anyone who would like to play around with it and see what the aircraft can do.... EDIT.. I have had so many requests for this I have posted a link... you can download it here..
http://74.50.85.67/900xp/900XP.xls
Cheers
Last edited by Rob2160; 26th May 2010 at 12:40.
But you´re right, the correct Luggage makes things much easier on the Hawker !
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Germany
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I did EBBR-UASK (great circle distance 2838NM) several times in a 900XP, yes, always tailwind average 60-80kt, 2-3 pax, flight time more than 7 hours (yes M .65 or less as I remember) but still all the reserves on board at destination. (but don't ask me for the numbers- I just don't remember). UASK-EBBR never possible without fuel stop.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney
Age: 59
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Herman,
Yes, 7 hours with 70 Kts tailwind accounts for 490 nm...
On your EBBR - UASK 2838 NM leg
This would give you 2348 nm air miles..
Sounds spot on with my experiences...
Yes, 7 hours with 70 Kts tailwind accounts for 490 nm...
On your EBBR - UASK 2838 NM leg
This would give you 2348 nm air miles..
Sounds spot on with my experiences...
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: where I can.
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Hi everyone,
I need to ask this following question;
About the Hawker 4000,do we need to get another full type rating course, when
your are already driver on 900 series with experience?
Good week end.
I need to ask this following question;
About the Hawker 4000,do we need to get another full type rating course, when
your are already driver on 900 series with experience?
Good week end.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: AT FL510
Age: 63
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The Sovereign does a better of lifting 6+ people, it's got a bigger hold, is longer and cheaper.
I cant remeber, has a Cessna Sovereign ever had a engine shot of of it and landed.....
Hawker built like a tank, flys like a dream..........Even on one engine left.
I cant remeber, has a Cessna Sovereign ever had a engine shot of of it and landed.....
Hawker built like a tank, flys like a dream..........Even on one engine left.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 53
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Hawkers have two systems that IMHO every jet should have...
Lift Dump and Rudder Bias.
I re-affirm the attributes already discussed. I've taken an 800XP (w/ PL21) 5:30 w/7 pax and landed with 1700 lbs @ M75+. Although I haven't flown one, I've heard the 900 is that much better.
Although in the current market, if you don't absolutely have to have a new airplane, look at the Falcon 50s. It's a lot of airplane for the price and the savings in purchase price will buy many years worth of fuel and mx.
G
Lift Dump and Rudder Bias.
I re-affirm the attributes already discussed. I've taken an 800XP (w/ PL21) 5:30 w/7 pax and landed with 1700 lbs @ M75+. Although I haven't flown one, I've heard the 900 is that much better.
Although in the current market, if you don't absolutely have to have a new airplane, look at the Falcon 50s. It's a lot of airplane for the price and the savings in purchase price will buy many years worth of fuel and mx.
G