Vista Jet
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30,000 as a bond that you cannot touch for 3 years is outrageous!! I understand why they want to bond pilots but when are these companies going to realize that the only way to get pilots to stay loyal to the company are to offer them better working conditions including stable rosters and reasonable salaries. Until this happens of course we are all going to be sending our cv's out and continually looking for pastures greener.
I really dont know where people in this industry keep finding clumps of 30k from... Good luck to all that have the financial resources to support this job application.
I really dont know where people in this industry keep finding clumps of 30k from... Good luck to all that have the financial resources to support this job application.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Even if you are a pilot and offered a job at Vista it would be unwise to accept such outlandish terms and conditions. It would be better to do an alternate career at this time. You are only going to get older and it would be cruel to go through life experiencing multiple reduncancies, shuffling your family around the world, accepting lower and lower conditions, etc, simply to fly an airplane. That is not only insanity it is unfair to yourself and your loved ones. Why not get a real job?
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Judging Vista as an uninvolved observer, all the negative rumours you read about them in the internet including this forum are sadly quite true. I would personally love to work for a company with such equipment - who would not? but this seems to be like a rotten apple which is infested with a few fat worms at the top and for that reason, it would simply be a bad choice unless they change some of their arrogant attitudes in the future.
The problem is: many pilots do not have a choice and sign up for short term gratification, just to have a job and being ignorant, that they will pay the price for it long term.
What is the benefit of being able to show off great equipment if the operations side is totally disorganised and chaotic to the detriment of the flightcrews ? If they can not get it right with the present situation how are they going to cope when the fleet expands in the future as rumours pledge ?
How can it work safely if not even basic CRM is practised and cultivated by many of the senior staff ?
How can it work if a company is not even willing to cater for a crew's basic needs ?
The list of questionable practices could be continued as already mentioned in this thread. It is not without reason why many competent pilots have either resigned or have been mobbed out. Human factors are said to be non existant.
I can only advise collegues to stay away - until this operation has undergone at least some evolution towards the positiv and there is a proper representation of the crews. If people keep falling for the eye-candy, things will never change and all this will remain a shame.
And if anybody from Vista's management feels adressed by my words, I can only appeal: it is time to pull finger! Look into the mirror and actually start caring about what you actually claim to stand for and get the job done. Please make this a company with a reputation and character that it should deserve - there is such a hugh potential in making this a great operation to work for.
The problem is: many pilots do not have a choice and sign up for short term gratification, just to have a job and being ignorant, that they will pay the price for it long term.
What is the benefit of being able to show off great equipment if the operations side is totally disorganised and chaotic to the detriment of the flightcrews ? If they can not get it right with the present situation how are they going to cope when the fleet expands in the future as rumours pledge ?
How can it work safely if not even basic CRM is practised and cultivated by many of the senior staff ?
How can it work if a company is not even willing to cater for a crew's basic needs ?
The list of questionable practices could be continued as already mentioned in this thread. It is not without reason why many competent pilots have either resigned or have been mobbed out. Human factors are said to be non existant.
I can only advise collegues to stay away - until this operation has undergone at least some evolution towards the positiv and there is a proper representation of the crews. If people keep falling for the eye-candy, things will never change and all this will remain a shame.
And if anybody from Vista's management feels adressed by my words, I can only appeal: it is time to pull finger! Look into the mirror and actually start caring about what you actually claim to stand for and get the job done. Please make this a company with a reputation and character that it should deserve - there is such a hugh potential in making this a great operation to work for.
Last edited by Propellerpilot; 3rd Aug 2010 at 22:49.
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And as an added bonus, your flight planning is contracted out to a company with not 1, not 2, but 0 licensed dispatchers on staff!
Ask them sometime to read the NOTAM's for you, or even better, ask if they know what NOTAM stands for, especially the General Manager, he really knows his stuff. If you are lucky, you won't end up with an alternate in Iraq.
Ask them sometime to read the NOTAM's for you, or even better, ask if they know what NOTAM stands for, especially the General Manager, he really knows his stuff. If you are lucky, you won't end up with an alternate in Iraq.
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Propeller
As an ex senior VistaJet employee I would suggest that while some of your comments may possibly be true (as they could be true of a number of operators) but you are way off the mark in certain areas, and it is most likely that the reason is because you are as you put it, an "uninvolved observer", and do not have any direct internal contact with the company.
your coment that "this seems to be like a rotten apple which is infested with a few fat worms at the top" is way, way off the mark......and casts totally unfounded aspersions on some honest/talented people, who have put a significant amount of their OWN ime and assets on the line.
Before everyone starts shouting forum/rumour etc.... I totally agree, but this is one rumour that is very wide of the mark, in some areas and it's overall tone.
DJ101
your coment that "this seems to be like a rotten apple which is infested with a few fat worms at the top" is way, way off the mark......and casts totally unfounded aspersions on some honest/talented people, who have put a significant amount of their OWN ime and assets on the line.
Before everyone starts shouting forum/rumour etc.... I totally agree, but this is one rumour that is very wide of the mark, in some areas and it's overall tone.
DJ101
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@deskjockey - I do understand what you mean and I would generally agree. It is just the way that I have heard crew from Vista talking and complaining about their own company. I am actually only trying to support the guys and gals working there, also knowing that writing this probably does not help them much - but why always "shut up" and hold your peace ?
It just seems that those that actually try and make a difference end up leaving for some strange reasons - especially those in senior positions, maybe you where one of those people ? If so, I can not blame you.
Anyway, I hope things will improve soon - there is much to gain.
It just seems that those that actually try and make a difference end up leaving for some strange reasons - especially those in senior positions, maybe you where one of those people ? If so, I can not blame you.
Anyway, I hope things will improve soon - there is much to gain.
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Prop
On the subject of crew, I have never worked for or had dealings with a company where there aren't pilots moaning about one thing or the other, and rarely have i seen them offer any level of loyalty simply jumping ship regularly for better money/terms (apologies in advance to the few who have remained loyal!!!) so it's no surprise that with a fleet of 20+ a/c and 130+ crew there wil be a bit of chatter out there. Despite the rumours the senior guys that have left/been replaced have been on the non fling side (original Chief Pilot still in place since the inception, and senior pilot moved to senior management also) and have been replaced with more appropriate people. I, on the other hand, left to take up a position elsewhere that was too good to turn down, and so left on very good terms and will continue to do business with VJ in the future.
As a general comment (as this is a forum) let me leave my personal opinion. European Business aviation continues to struggle to move forward and still has the cottage industry feel. With approx. 2800 a/c and 950 AOC's (excluding the BS private/illegal operations) this leaves 2-3 a/c per AOC (factor in NJ/VJ and GJC and this reduces the ratio even further which is nowhere near enough for any sustainable level of profitability. Not until the industry as a whole get's to grips with this and EASA plays it's part with regulation change ( some form of biz jet specific AOC) will the industry be able to move forward and be profitable enough to grow, and re-invest and not rely on the charitable donations of wealthy enthusiasts and illegally run a/c......
Only my view but interested to hear others.....
DJ 101
As a general comment (as this is a forum) let me leave my personal opinion. European Business aviation continues to struggle to move forward and still has the cottage industry feel. With approx. 2800 a/c and 950 AOC's (excluding the BS private/illegal operations) this leaves 2-3 a/c per AOC (factor in NJ/VJ and GJC and this reduces the ratio even further which is nowhere near enough for any sustainable level of profitability. Not until the industry as a whole get's to grips with this and EASA plays it's part with regulation change ( some form of biz jet specific AOC) will the industry be able to move forward and be profitable enough to grow, and re-invest and not rely on the charitable donations of wealthy enthusiasts and illegally run a/c......
Only my view but interested to hear others.....
DJ 101
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As far as the psychological question is concerned, it is a good cop/bad cop scenario. I did the tour a couple of month ago and must say that the entire procedure was not professionally conducted at all.
During the psychological part I was given a scenario where the handling agent had brought the wrong food. We were very late for departure and a new delivery would take about an hour. The blonde, (psychiatrist) didn't know anything about aviation, but expected a professional answer from you.
During the psychological part I was given a scenario where the handling agent had brought the wrong food. We were very late for departure and a new delivery would take about an hour. The blonde, (psychiatrist) didn't know anything about aviation, but expected a professional answer from you.
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The blonde, (psychiatrist)
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They tried to make this assessment look relaxed and fair. But it is not. They told us at the start that the entire assessment will be taken in to account and not single steps. The first lie. After mid day we were told that we all did well and passed the single steps and would proceed. At the beginning you are given 5 minutes to prepare a flip chart about YOU and three minutes to talk about the flip chart you have prepared. After that a "fun" game of team work. You will be lead in to a room and transform a Lego airplane into a Lego helicopter. They want to test your team skills. The psychologist, (a blonde woman with big hooters) is absolutely useless!!! She played the "bad cop" but has NO clue about aviation. The good thing about her is her huge top.
Then there is a sim test. A Microsoft sim at home is better. You have to fly a hold and 2 approaches. This "aircraft" is very difficult to "fly". Though they tell you at the beginning that no emergencies are going to be presented, they pulled a very nasty one on me, on the missed approach. Despite what they told us at the beginning.
I didn't get an offer.
I know quite a few pilots there that day who were very qualified and didn't get one either. Judging by their terms and the fact that many were told they had "passed" the assessment but never received a job offer since, I am quite glad to have escaped that trap. 
P.S. She didn't wear black leather but it would have been fitting. Vista is Austrian, not German.
Then there is a sim test. A Microsoft sim at home is better. You have to fly a hold and 2 approaches. This "aircraft" is very difficult to "fly". Though they tell you at the beginning that no emergencies are going to be presented, they pulled a very nasty one on me, on the missed approach. Despite what they told us at the beginning.
I didn't get an offer.
I know quite a few pilots there that day who were very qualified and didn't get one either. Judging by their terms and the fact that many were told they had "passed" the assessment but never received a job offer since, I am quite glad to have escaped that trap. P.S. She didn't wear black leather but it would have been fitting. Vista is Austrian, not German.
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They also have a technical part but it is a total joke and counts for nothing. You will be given a questionnaire about the Learjet 60. Most people didn't know much about that aircraft. We did the exercise as a group session. No one was in the room except the applicants and the door was closed We were told at the beginning that this exercise has no weight at all. We wasted about 30 minutes and then went on to the next part of the selection process. 
We were told at the beginning that this exercise has no weight at all. We wasted about 30 minutes and then went on to the next part of the selection process.