Wikiposts
Search
Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

The Empty Leg Syndrome

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 24th Feb 2010, 02:29
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Empty Leg Syndrome

The Empty-Leg Syndrome

Interesting aviation week article on trends in the biz jet industry.

its a decently long article, but the bottom line is that new charter models including floating fleets and one-way pricing seem to be much more efficient than the current dominant models of managed charter planes and fractional.

The article profiles a couple companies who claim success with the model of owning their own jets and completely floating their fleet. Where the plane lands, it stays, until it makes sense for them to pick up another mission. They sell a precise combination of guaranteed hours, roundtrip charter, and one way charter. Supposedly they have been able to cut deadhead down to the lowest levels yet. XOjet claims only 3% nonrevenue legs.

It would be interesting to see if this model catches on and begins to control the market. How would you pilots feel about being about being floated constantly? If the model could increase utilization to 1500+ hours a year, that could drastically reduce prices and help grow the business.
tuna hp is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2010, 07:28
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Zealand
Age: 72
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
empty leg syndrome.

Tuna
If I was waiting in a nice location, it would be great, no complaints, if I was waiting in a dung heap of a location, then I, as a pilot, would be singing the blues. Nice hotel, per diem, counting my days, OK. Crap location, counting my days, until I leave.
NZ X man is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2010, 08:39
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: A Higher Plane
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
2 weeks on 2 weeks off, that would suit me and take the sting out of always being expected to be on standby - how it is right now

Surely a floating fleet is just an amalgamation of how ad-hoc charter and fractional work.......
Johnny Redd is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2010, 13:29
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: It wasn't me, I wasn't there, wrong country ;-)
Age: 79
Posts: 1,757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Tuna, just like your handle, cast the net wide enough, and those cannot see, will be caught You want your folks to fly/work for a Big Mac
merlinxx is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2010, 14:07
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Johnny Redd
Surely a floating fleet is just an amalgamation of how ad-hoc charter and fractional work.......
Yeah. Netjets already floats their fleet. The idea is that netjets sells way too much guaranteed availability per plane (in terms of users and hours) but not as much total revenue flying as they could accumulate per plane. So they have way too much deadhead and charter outsoucing needs, and don't reduce fixed costs as muchas they could.

Since reading the article I've been trying to read up on XOjet and they really do seem to have an interesting model. They are betting that they can significantly reduce the deadhead experienced by the managed charters by owning their own planes. They can also have much less deadhead than Netjets because they're going to price their products efficiently: lower prices for flights to and from popular airports (where they are most likely to be able to pick up another flight without having to reposition). Reduced prices for longer flights (lower proportion of positioning to revenue flight time). Reserving most guaranteed availbility to users who are going to provide them with consistant business throughout the year, not just during peak periods. Selling their excess of peak capacity at a premium. Etc.

The are focusing on the Citation X and Challenger 300 because they want to focus on transcontinental flights where positioning will be a lower proportion of total flight, so they believe that the transcontinental market is where they will have the largest competetive advantage versus managed charter and fractional.

So far they have supposedly averaged 1200 hours/yr per plane with some months where they have gotten up to 1500 hours annualized.

Here's my question to those in the business:

Using the XO jet model or something like it, is it so inconcievable that when the market firms up, they might be able to get 2 transcontinental flights per plane per day? 3000+ hours of utilization per year?

Being able to dillute the fixed costs per hour so much would be huge for the business jet industry. My understanding is that capital expenses and depreciation together already account for the majority of the total cost of flying business jets, and there are other significant fixed costs that could also be dilluted.
tuna hp is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2010, 15:56
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S England
Age: 54
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
NZ X Man,
I too read this article with interest. The impression I got was that while the aircraft was 'waiting' at the non fixed location, the crew were re-deployed. I guess it makes sense - using your example, flying a crew back on commercial airlines from say, Nice, would be a fraction of the cost of repositioning the frame on a deadleg. Even if the crew then flew back to Nice a couple of days later, it would offer a considerable saving over deadlegging.
Chicken Leg is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2010, 18:11
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,780
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I too read this article with interest. The impression I got was that while the aircraft was 'waiting' at the non fixed location, the crew were re-deployed. I guess it makes sense - using your example, flying a crew back on commercial airlines from say, Nice, would be a fraction of the cost of repositioning the frame on a deadleg. Even if the crew then flew back to Nice a couple of days later, it would offer a considerable saving over deadlegging.
The operators don't evaluate the aircrew's wellbeing against the cost of repositioning the airframe - they evaluate it against the cost of keeping the aircrew in a rubbish hotel until the airframe is redeployed. So they'll only pay for you to go home if it is cheaper than holding you in a hotel. Not too bad if you are in Nice - but try an indefinite stopover in (say) Lahr and you will get an idea of how poor the deal is for the aircrew.
Trim Stab is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2010, 19:07
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: EGGD KFXE EGBJ
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
are you serious !!!!

Im guessing you dont have a job right now
Martin Barnes is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2010, 23:31
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S England
Age: 54
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Trim Stab
I don't doubt that the decision to bring crews home is a financial one, but I don't agree with your post. To get a crew home from (say) Lahr nowadays is buttons. To keep a crew in a hotel on expenses etc would mean that a 'hold' of only a couple of days would mean it's likely to be cheaper to bring them home. Anyway, is a couple of days in a cheap hotel really that bad if you're getting paid to do it? As long as it's clean....... Take your trainers and a pair of shorts and Bob's your Father's brother!
Chicken Leg is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.