Best Way To Become Bizjet Pilot?
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Getting into the business jet scene
After twenty years I am in the position to hire pilots for our operation. Revenge is sweet. The kids that pay for a type rating or even offer to pay end up in the garbage can. I worked my way up from putting gas in and hauling 152's around the parking lot. I also learned more about flying on a rainy day talking to the old guys at the airport than any text book can ever teach.
I then finally became an instructor, and loved having the chance to teach others. 1500 hours of dual given later a gentleman whose airplane I used to fill up offered me a job to fly freight at night in a Baron. I did that for a year, 4 nights a week in the upper mid-awest of the US where you can have everything from snow and ice (MSP), to low visibility approaches (MKE) to thunderstorms(MDW). All in one night. Priceless experience I wouldn't want to be without.
Then the big break flying Navajo's for a charter operator, lots of grass strips and fun flying. Moved up to SIC on a Citation 500 with 3400 hours finally. After that a progression through bizjets up to the top of the line Gulfstream.
I gained experience that can't be conveyed through a class or a book. I have seen a lot of interesting situations, and I can reference back to a previous incident or conversation I had with an old salt and make a decision.
Please let's all quit the pay for a job thing. The guy that owns my airplane has plenty of money. If you bring value to the table he will not mind paying for it. Rich people are generally smart and competitive. Some of them like to see how low you will go. The lower you go, the less respect you will get.
Pilots need to regain the respect we deserve. If properly trained and experienced we are very valuable. We fly owners of large companies, presidents and prime ministers around.
But I guess it is hard to be proud of your experience and skills if you bought it as opposed to earned it.
So to those of us that earned it the hard way, let's help out the new guy with more ambition than money. At the same time we should make life a little more difficult for the rats that buy their way in. If we (as I wish I would have been long ago) get more vocal maybe we can shame them into getting some experience instead of buying a job.
I would like to become a lawyer. If I go to Texas I only have to pass the bar exam, no law degree needed. Would that make me a good lawyer? Would you hire me to write up your company's contracts? I have the "type rating", I must be qualified, right?
I then finally became an instructor, and loved having the chance to teach others. 1500 hours of dual given later a gentleman whose airplane I used to fill up offered me a job to fly freight at night in a Baron. I did that for a year, 4 nights a week in the upper mid-awest of the US where you can have everything from snow and ice (MSP), to low visibility approaches (MKE) to thunderstorms(MDW). All in one night. Priceless experience I wouldn't want to be without.
Then the big break flying Navajo's for a charter operator, lots of grass strips and fun flying. Moved up to SIC on a Citation 500 with 3400 hours finally. After that a progression through bizjets up to the top of the line Gulfstream.
I gained experience that can't be conveyed through a class or a book. I have seen a lot of interesting situations, and I can reference back to a previous incident or conversation I had with an old salt and make a decision.
Please let's all quit the pay for a job thing. The guy that owns my airplane has plenty of money. If you bring value to the table he will not mind paying for it. Rich people are generally smart and competitive. Some of them like to see how low you will go. The lower you go, the less respect you will get.
Pilots need to regain the respect we deserve. If properly trained and experienced we are very valuable. We fly owners of large companies, presidents and prime ministers around.
But I guess it is hard to be proud of your experience and skills if you bought it as opposed to earned it.
So to those of us that earned it the hard way, let's help out the new guy with more ambition than money. At the same time we should make life a little more difficult for the rats that buy their way in. If we (as I wish I would have been long ago) get more vocal maybe we can shame them into getting some experience instead of buying a job.
I would like to become a lawyer. If I go to Texas I only have to pass the bar exam, no law degree needed. Would that make me a good lawyer? Would you hire me to write up your company's contracts? I have the "type rating", I must be qualified, right?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Da50driver,
I hope there's more people like you out there...
Heard of a CJ F/O getting 1000€ a month on a fixed contract that includes being the chiefs assisstant (brown noser). Of course he paid his typerating.
I hope there's more people like you out there...
Heard of a CJ F/O getting 1000€ a month on a fixed contract that includes being the chiefs assisstant (brown noser). Of course he paid his typerating.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I would like to become a lawyer. If I go to Texas I only have to pass the bar exam, no law degree needed. Would that make me a good lawyer? Would you hire me to write up your company's contracts? I have the "type rating", I must be qualified, right?
I know things are different in the States, however there isn't a difference between the guy who pays for his rating and the low houred guy who gets put into the right hand seat of an airbus with any number of operators in Europe and various other places. As pilots we never stop learning...the young co-jo with low hours in the right hand seat of a Citation is't comparable to someone who has done thousands of hours VFR flying as an instructor or Navajo flying in the Alaskan mountains. The flying is completely different...It takes actual hands on experience flying those upper airways with your faithful Captain to continue instructing and directing you in how a jet operation works from pre flight prep to operating the FMS and the MCP.
All experience is good experience but what is this thing with shaming the guys who wish to get where they want to be a little bit quicker? Enough airlines, BA to name a few, employ low houred guys and they seem to do a relatively decent job. Instructing is not experience that will help you when you hop into a jet, it is merely hours building. If a guy can get a job and pass the type rating without having to instruct or fly single pilot in an old Barron, as far as i'm concerned, there isn't anything wrong with that.
My two centimes worth!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Jetstreamrider
Hi,
While I value your opinion I think you are dead wrong on some issues that we have touched upon. Instructing is some of the most enriching thing you can do as a pilot. I learned a ton about flying while doing it. Also, while at the airport I was exposed to older guys who had stories to tell. Some total bs, some great teaching moments.
If you go from 0 to right seat in 9 months you can not under any circumstance learn these things. I have flown with low time guys that asked questions I would be embarrassed to as if I was getting paid to be a professional pilot. I have also flown with low time guys that were great, because they love airplanes and aviation.
In Europe the type rating and a frozen ATPL is considered enough to be a copilot. In the US most guys can not get a job in a corporate jet until they have 3-4000 hours, because the CEO or owner values his life and want two experienced guys running the show. With the European model of having a management company in between the owner and the pilots this is not such an issue. We have charter customers that require 2000 tt and 1500 me before a guy can be a co pilot on our jet.
The shaming part is to make sure people have time to actually develop skills and experience in aviation. BA and other operators may do well, but it is a very closed environment. We need people with broader experience in the bizjet world. As the European businessjet world evolves you will likely see things like a full time dispatcher disappear, and the pilots will have to think and do for themselves. I flew for a European commercial operator for two years, it was the easiest job I ever had, but to me it was also boring. Our guys are involved in the entire operation, from scheduling to cleaning if needed. We all work as a team, there is no "I am the Captain, I don't take out the trash". I had multiple 270 hour copilots tell me that they wouldn't help the FA because it was not in their job description. All my friends that rose through the ranks have the same attitude I have, while the pay for training and TR crowd have some idea that they do not need to help out with anything outside the cockpit. Some of them were reasonable pilots, some were so far the airplane that when i leveled off in cruise they had gotten all the way to "Positive Rate".
While I value your opinion I think you are dead wrong on some issues that we have touched upon. Instructing is some of the most enriching thing you can do as a pilot. I learned a ton about flying while doing it. Also, while at the airport I was exposed to older guys who had stories to tell. Some total bs, some great teaching moments.
If you go from 0 to right seat in 9 months you can not under any circumstance learn these things. I have flown with low time guys that asked questions I would be embarrassed to as if I was getting paid to be a professional pilot. I have also flown with low time guys that were great, because they love airplanes and aviation.
In Europe the type rating and a frozen ATPL is considered enough to be a copilot. In the US most guys can not get a job in a corporate jet until they have 3-4000 hours, because the CEO or owner values his life and want two experienced guys running the show. With the European model of having a management company in between the owner and the pilots this is not such an issue. We have charter customers that require 2000 tt and 1500 me before a guy can be a co pilot on our jet.
The shaming part is to make sure people have time to actually develop skills and experience in aviation. BA and other operators may do well, but it is a very closed environment. We need people with broader experience in the bizjet world. As the European businessjet world evolves you will likely see things like a full time dispatcher disappear, and the pilots will have to think and do for themselves. I flew for a European commercial operator for two years, it was the easiest job I ever had, but to me it was also boring. Our guys are involved in the entire operation, from scheduling to cleaning if needed. We all work as a team, there is no "I am the Captain, I don't take out the trash". I had multiple 270 hour copilots tell me that they wouldn't help the FA because it was not in their job description. All my friends that rose through the ranks have the same attitude I have, while the pay for training and TR crowd have some idea that they do not need to help out with anything outside the cockpit. Some of them were reasonable pilots, some were so far the airplane that when i leveled off in cruise they had gotten all the way to "Positive Rate".
