Was this a mistake?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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the extreme opposite
I know nobody wants to hear this, but it doesn't hurt at all to be cost-sensitive and be aware of the extreme vulnerability of our beloved business aviation!
I shake my head in disbelief when pilots do not pay attention as to where to refuel and how much or don't care to read through the handling invoice for any unjustified fees, ask for the price of a crew shuttle etc...
In German there is a saying of not putting the axe on the very branch you're sitting on...
I do agree though that we shouldn't keep lowering our salaries.
I shake my head in disbelief when pilots do not pay attention as to where to refuel and how much or don't care to read through the handling invoice for any unjustified fees, ask for the price of a crew shuttle etc...
In German there is a saying of not putting the axe on the very branch you're sitting on...
I do agree though that we shouldn't keep lowering our salaries.
I shake my head in disbelief when pilots do not pay attention as to where to refuel and how much or don't care to read through the handling invoice for any unjustified fees, ask for the price of a crew shuttle etc...
Last edited by EatMyShorts!; 30th Nov 2009 at 15:15.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Eat my shorts has a point there.
I remember working for an operator that treated/treats his employees like medium radioactive garbage. Mind you, that shiploads of money were thrown out of the window by the 'belle-etage' aka ops and the master himself.
He would not answer the phone on a sunday even when it was his duty.
Ops did forget flights or gave us flight data that were simpy wrong (like wrong destination). The costs for things like that are gigantic in perspective. Having said that, awareness for costs is crucial and part of the job. But if you make valid and genuine 'Kaizen' inputs and they are ignored time and again, you get fed up. I always worked for the company, but I perfectly understand if one is so fed up with crap from the higher echolons that he does not any more...and that costs operators possibly more than anything.
I remember working for an operator that treated/treats his employees like medium radioactive garbage. Mind you, that shiploads of money were thrown out of the window by the 'belle-etage' aka ops and the master himself.
He would not answer the phone on a sunday even when it was his duty.
Ops did forget flights or gave us flight data that were simpy wrong (like wrong destination). The costs for things like that are gigantic in perspective. Having said that, awareness for costs is crucial and part of the job. But if you make valid and genuine 'Kaizen' inputs and they are ignored time and again, you get fed up. I always worked for the company, but I perfectly understand if one is so fed up with crap from the higher echolons that he does not any more...and that costs operators possibly more than anything.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Eat my Shorts + your Dudeness:
that's not the point!
No matter how much money others may through out of the window: WE should know better. It's for safekeeping our jobs. It's narrow-sighted not to be cost-conscious these days (and any other day, for that sake).
I've seen corporate flight departments, which have been existing longer than I have been flying, suddenly close down operations and sell their airplanes. Just like that. The message here: even the wealthiest people might get the idea to look at cost-cutting measures. And as always, it is good to be prepared for the worst, isn't it?
Our friend who started this thread made a very personal decision which I respect. He also sent a message to the people who offered him the job - even though they probably will find a 'monkey' to take it under the given circumstances... I do wish him better luck next time!
that's not the point!
No matter how much money others may through out of the window: WE should know better. It's for safekeeping our jobs. It's narrow-sighted not to be cost-conscious these days (and any other day, for that sake).
I've seen corporate flight departments, which have been existing longer than I have been flying, suddenly close down operations and sell their airplanes. Just like that. The message here: even the wealthiest people might get the idea to look at cost-cutting measures. And as always, it is good to be prepared for the worst, isn't it?
Our friend who started this thread made a very personal decision which I respect. He also sent a message to the people who offered him the job - even though they probably will find a 'monkey' to take it under the given circumstances... I do wish him better luck next time!
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Would you care to read my post?
I just expressed my understanding even if I wouldn´t do it the same way.
Still I won´t tell them that there are cheaper pilots than me.
Having said that, awareness for costs is crucial and part of the job.
Still I won´t tell them that there are cheaper pilots than me.
Join Date: Dec 2003
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No
I would say it was a good decision.
Someone is asking you to pay 15k for the rating and on top of it they will only give you 950 a month????
So the first two years you'll be trying to pay that back whilst pretending to have a good life as FO....
Whereas at moment you have a solid job which I guess pays far more anyway.
The clue is, don't jump at the very first thing that gives you wings. Wait and the better deal will eventually appear. Of course do keep your contacts up etc.
Of course you could see it from another angle. What if someone else took the job, willing to slave away earning nothing in reality until that time passes and then maybe getting a better job with another company. If a person can afford that then they probably have far more money anyway and just want the privilege of wearing the outfit.
Someone is asking you to pay 15k for the rating and on top of it they will only give you 950 a month????
So the first two years you'll be trying to pay that back whilst pretending to have a good life as FO....
Whereas at moment you have a solid job which I guess pays far more anyway.
The clue is, don't jump at the very first thing that gives you wings. Wait and the better deal will eventually appear. Of course do keep your contacts up etc.
Of course you could see it from another angle. What if someone else took the job, willing to slave away earning nothing in reality until that time passes and then maybe getting a better job with another company. If a person can afford that then they probably have far more money anyway and just want the privilege of wearing the outfit.
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Well done !!! You did the right thing. In the future you can look at your self with pride knowing this. With a company like this - you can not learn anything good about flying anyway !!! Pay peanuts and ............
Not you !!!
Not you !!!
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I agree with every one else, and what's already been said, you made the right choice.
I'm a bit in the same position, just with a few more hours. Yet...
When it comes to salary, of course we're not exactly in a position to ask for billions, yet it should be decent.
I've always thought of myself, being in a cockpit, let's say having paid for every thing, t/r, rvsm/mnp courses, etc...Now obviously I owe some one (or the bank) a huge pile of money. And with such low salary, there's a very high chance that not only have I been eating pasta for months (adding the cpl/ir-me training won't help), but I have to pay the rent, and the car, and the cellphone, and the hotel when I arrive to my destination...Worst case scenario, I've received a bill last night and the bank called me an hour before the take-off...Will I be mentally fit to fly? Though a pro pilot, will I be able to focus on the flight 100%? Not likely to happen, so....
I'm a bit in the same position, just with a few more hours. Yet...
When it comes to salary, of course we're not exactly in a position to ask for billions, yet it should be decent.
I've always thought of myself, being in a cockpit, let's say having paid for every thing, t/r, rvsm/mnp courses, etc...Now obviously I owe some one (or the bank) a huge pile of money. And with such low salary, there's a very high chance that not only have I been eating pasta for months (adding the cpl/ir-me training won't help), but I have to pay the rent, and the car, and the cellphone, and the hotel when I arrive to my destination...Worst case scenario, I've received a bill last night and the bank called me an hour before the take-off...Will I be mentally fit to fly? Though a pro pilot, will I be able to focus on the flight 100%? Not likely to happen, so....
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Ahramin
Maybe but we are in the most awful situation at present I just went for a recurent on my FAA licence to the states. The situation there is dire with high houred captains even from the airlines sitting around doing nothing.
What chance does a 250 hr pilot have? Zero.
Why pay 15K for a type rating to act as a SIC ? There are far cheaper options to make you legal. OK go FS yes but they are not paying the money to expect you to go FS or simular. They want cheap give them cheap in your TR!
Two years ago I would have said no way but now its important to be in the system and he is unlikely to get another offer! sorry but thats being blunt.
In his situation he needs to talk to them and see if there is any more in the pot. If not take it and say bye bye when it suits him or something better comes along.
If the poster is a youngster with time on his side keep your present job until things improve in the next 5 years plus if not??? wait with 250 hrs for someone to caugh up 15K to type rate you get real.
Pace
Maybe but we are in the most awful situation at present I just went for a recurent on my FAA licence to the states. The situation there is dire with high houred captains even from the airlines sitting around doing nothing.
What chance does a 250 hr pilot have? Zero.
Why pay 15K for a type rating to act as a SIC ? There are far cheaper options to make you legal. OK go FS yes but they are not paying the money to expect you to go FS or simular. They want cheap give them cheap in your TR!
Two years ago I would have said no way but now its important to be in the system and he is unlikely to get another offer! sorry but thats being blunt.
In his situation he needs to talk to them and see if there is any more in the pot. If not take it and say bye bye when it suits him or something better comes along.
If the poster is a youngster with time on his side keep your present job until things improve in the next 5 years plus if not??? wait with 250 hrs for someone to caugh up 15K to type rate you get real.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 1st Dec 2009 at 17:19.
