NetJets Transportes Aereos Pilots Union
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NetJets Transportes Aereos Pilots Union
Unlike the NetJets US- NetJets Transportes Aéreos Pilots have no collective bargaining agreement.
Click here for the NetJets Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots site
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Click here for the Master Collective Bargaining Agreement
2007 CBA Resource Center
NetJets Europe - All aircraft offered by NetJets Europe are operated, maintained, and crewed by NetJets Transportes Aéreos, SA, an EU Carrier. Operations center located in Lisbon, Portugal.
Click here for the NetJets Association of Shared Aircraft Pilots site
WELCOME TO NJASAP
Click here for the Master Collective Bargaining Agreement
2007 CBA Resource Center
NetJets Europe - All aircraft offered by NetJets Europe are operated, maintained, and crewed by NetJets Transportes Aéreos, SA, an EU Carrier. Operations center located in Lisbon, Portugal.
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Hi...
I am not so good at reading between the lines and would like an explanation to your post(s).
Are you asking or suggesting that NJE pilots should join this group, do they want us, what can they do for us, will NJE recognise it as official representation should we get a large number of NJE crew joining.
I think you need to explain exactly what is on offer, your posts on JB's are just as abrupt and confusing.
Make it simple and break it down for us simpletons.
Thanks.
I am not so good at reading between the lines and would like an explanation to your post(s).
Are you asking or suggesting that NJE pilots should join this group, do they want us, what can they do for us, will NJE recognise it as official representation should we get a large number of NJE crew joining.
I think you need to explain exactly what is on offer, your posts on JB's are just as abrupt and confusing.
Make it simple and break it down for us simpletons.
Thanks.
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If you're seriously thinking of having another crack at a union you might want to get a wriggle on. NJA and NJI have all had cuts imposed, I think (hope I'm wrong) it won't be long before it happens this side of the pond.
Just be careful who you let on the secret union panel this time eh?
Just be careful who you let on the secret union panel this time eh?
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EMS.
In the words of the song, it wasn't me. You're still making good use of my particular contribution though I think.
South Coast/Hankers. Giving in so easily? Assuming shujaa isn't a company plant why aren't you guys more receptive? They just might be what you need in the coming months.
In the words of the song, it wasn't me. You're still making good use of my particular contribution though I think.
South Coast/Hankers. Giving in so easily? Assuming shujaa isn't a company plant why aren't you guys more receptive? They just might be what you need in the coming months.
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Flintoffski, maybe you misunderstood my initial post.
What I meant was could the original poster please explain exactly what it was he is hinting at.
A union is exactly what is needed and therefore there is no need to be cryptic, otherwise people dont understand what is being offered, me for one from the original post.
As for Hankers, I have no idea why someone who agrees that such a movement is needed would dismiss it so easily, why not back it and try to help get it going.
All this and the posts on a similar site are all too vague, and that doesnt induce confidence in anyone to take it seriously.
What I meant was could the original poster please explain exactly what it was he is hinting at.
A union is exactly what is needed and therefore there is no need to be cryptic, otherwise people dont understand what is being offered, me for one from the original post.
As for Hankers, I have no idea why someone who agrees that such a movement is needed would dismiss it so easily, why not back it and try to help get it going.
All this and the posts on a similar site are all too vague, and that doesnt induce confidence in anyone to take it seriously.
Last edited by south coast; 28th Sep 2009 at 14:17.
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Just another REPA...Ryanair European Pilot Association....
what happened? nothing...
cause pilots are kept happy singolarly by the company, with promises and ad hoc actions...
D
what happened? nothing...
cause pilots are kept happy singolarly by the company, with promises and ad hoc actions...
D
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EMS. Nah, I got you. Even a ficky like wot I am got the smiley 
SC. I thought it sounded odd, apologies. Given the history of attempting to bring a union into NJE (particularly with reference to the person EMS hinted at) there must be a lot of people wondering if this is a genuine attempt or a company fishing exercise. Cryptic posts don't help I suppose.
Good luck with it.
SC. I thought it sounded odd, apologies. Given the history of attempting to bring a union into NJE (particularly with reference to the person EMS hinted at) there must be a lot of people wondering if this is a genuine attempt or a company fishing exercise. Cryptic posts don't help I suppose.
Good luck with it.
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If there had been a union, then there would be 300 odd pilots now on the scrap heap instead of jobsharing or part time. Unions exist only to protect the jobs and privileges of the most senior pilots in a company, especially if they happen to be on the company council. I've seen it happen and have been a victim of union backscratching before. So no thanks. Its a nasty old world. Get used to it.
I cannot imagine the bottom 300 voting for and paying subscriptions to an organisation that would see them out of a job to protect those who have simply had the good fortune to join at the right time.
Now flame away. I don't care.
I cannot imagine the bottom 300 voting for and paying subscriptions to an organisation that would see them out of a job to protect those who have simply had the good fortune to join at the right time.
Now flame away. I don't care.
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Having a union would have meant 300 outright lay-offs? Surely if the current deals are beneficial to the company they would still have implemented them? Or are you saying that the mere existence of a union would have incited forced redundancies? I know there have been some illogical, hot-headed decisions from Lisbon in the past but those days are over, aren't they?
I say this with no pleasure NB but I think before this is over you may well see people laid off anyway. NJA had it, so did NJI. Can't see NJE being spared as a special case. RS stood against lay-offs and with him gone standard business sense will be given free rein. Office bods are (logically) the obvious targets but over 40% of the crew still on home standby won't go unnoticed.
If a second round comes along there'll be more than a few people wishing there were a union. Bit late by then. Surely better to have one and not need it than the other way around?
I say this with no pleasure NB but I think before this is over you may well see people laid off anyway. NJA had it, so did NJI. Can't see NJE being spared as a special case. RS stood against lay-offs and with him gone standard business sense will be given free rein. Office bods are (logically) the obvious targets but over 40% of the crew still on home standby won't go unnoticed.
If a second round comes along there'll be more than a few people wishing there were a union. Bit late by then. Surely better to have one and not need it than the other way around?
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South Coast
Couple of reminders what you wrote
"As for Hankers, I have no idea why someone who agrees that such a movement is needed would dismiss it so easily, why not back it and try to help get it going."
And then in the same post
"All this and the posts on a similar site are all too vague, and that doesnt induce confidence in anyone to take it seriously."
Which is my point exactly. Things too vague and it will just not get the backing because everyone knows what has happened before (i.e it died a death). Too quick to jump in criticising there SC and don't think you gave full consideration to the thought process behind my post!
If Netjets U.S (NJI, NJE, EJM) struggled and had problems gaining union recognition, how difficult and time consuming for the people involved do think it would be for us? There is a time and a place for everthing and it MY OPINION we are not in that place today.
Couple of reminders what you wrote
"As for Hankers, I have no idea why someone who agrees that such a movement is needed would dismiss it so easily, why not back it and try to help get it going."
And then in the same post
"All this and the posts on a similar site are all too vague, and that doesnt induce confidence in anyone to take it seriously."
Which is my point exactly. Things too vague and it will just not get the backing because everyone knows what has happened before (i.e it died a death). Too quick to jump in criticising there SC and don't think you gave full consideration to the thought process behind my post!
If Netjets U.S (NJI, NJE, EJM) struggled and had problems gaining union recognition, how difficult and time consuming for the people involved do think it would be for us? There is a time and a place for everthing and it MY OPINION we are not in that place today.
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Flintstone, If there had been a union then the bottom 300 would have been unceremoniously turfed out because the union would have insisted on LIFO to protect the more senior from any hint of jobshare or part time. The company would have been more than glad to save the money. That is what unions do. I have been a victim of this more than once and in fact the second time seniority was no protection as a "deal" was done to protect the favored few.
As for further layoffs, I am sure they will happen. Those that "volunteered" are theoretically protected from redundancy for 4 years. The new broom will likely either tear up the agreement citing "urgency" or some such or at 4 years and 1 day, the p45's will be handed out. The business is showing no sign of going back to where it was and the whole operation will probably need to be downsized. Permanently.
For those that remain, reckon on 10+ years to command. Just like the airlines.
Cynical, pessimistic? certainly. Life does that to you.
I'm now frantically and so far unsuccsesfully looking for an airline job to see me through a few more years until I can pay the mortgage off and then thankfully get out of this rotten business.
Someone should tell the wanabees to save themselves a lot of pain and stay well away from aviation.
As for further layoffs, I am sure they will happen. Those that "volunteered" are theoretically protected from redundancy for 4 years. The new broom will likely either tear up the agreement citing "urgency" or some such or at 4 years and 1 day, the p45's will be handed out. The business is showing no sign of going back to where it was and the whole operation will probably need to be downsized. Permanently.
For those that remain, reckon on 10+ years to command. Just like the airlines.
Cynical, pessimistic? certainly. Life does that to you.
I'm now frantically and so far unsuccsesfully looking for an airline job to see me through a few more years until I can pay the mortgage off and then thankfully get out of this rotten business.
Someone should tell the wanabees to save themselves a lot of pain and stay well away from aviation.
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NB
Surely the union would have done what the membership asked them to and not simply wipe 300 names off the bottom of the list? They can't agree a plan of lay-offs, VRs or whatever without the agreement of the people who put them in place. I can understand if your previous experiences colour your thinking but I think it's a massive assumption.
Agree with your last line though. Anyone looking to get started in this industry wants their bumps feeling. Some of the posts in the Wannabee forum about financing training by hocking the family home and them borrowing more to buy a type rating make me wince.
Edit. Where's this shujaa character disappeared to?
Surely the union would have done what the membership asked them to and not simply wipe 300 names off the bottom of the list? They can't agree a plan of lay-offs, VRs or whatever without the agreement of the people who put them in place. I can understand if your previous experiences colour your thinking but I think it's a massive assumption.
Agree with your last line though. Anyone looking to get started in this industry wants their bumps feeling. Some of the posts in the Wannabee forum about financing training by hocking the family home and them borrowing more to buy a type rating make me wince.
Edit. Where's this shujaa character disappeared to?
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Hello again Fred.
I take your point about the demands of the membership, but do the maths.
300 recent joiners, some of whom have left perfectly good jobs to join on what have turned out to be empty promises. They are desperate to avoid being canned at a time when jobs are few and far between and 12 year olds with 250 hours and big chequebooks are actually paying to take what positions are available and the companies are venal and stupid enough to let them.
800 more senior people with the exact same worries and families to feed. The 800 would almost certainly pressure the union to get rid of the 300 to protect their interests. I would.
800 outvotes 300 even if 100 abstain/forget/leave/retire or whatever.
I'm not blaming anyone for wanting a union. I was in BALPA for many years and when push came to shove after 9/11, I got screwed. So have a union by all means , just don't expect self sacrificing altruism from the members when it really matters. I was in another industry and another union before I started flying. Same deal, sold out. The union brass all walked away with management positions. If you want further proof of how you can be shafted, look no further than our esteemed government in the UK and what they did to all us working stiffs.
Flying can be a great job but it really is a rotten career unless you are very lucky and manage to be at the right place at the right time, every time.
Good luck to all genuine jobseekers. The rest of you, put those bloody chequebooks away and have some respect for the rest of us who depend on this business to live.
I take your point about the demands of the membership, but do the maths.
300 recent joiners, some of whom have left perfectly good jobs to join on what have turned out to be empty promises. They are desperate to avoid being canned at a time when jobs are few and far between and 12 year olds with 250 hours and big chequebooks are actually paying to take what positions are available and the companies are venal and stupid enough to let them.
800 more senior people with the exact same worries and families to feed. The 800 would almost certainly pressure the union to get rid of the 300 to protect their interests. I would.
800 outvotes 300 even if 100 abstain/forget/leave/retire or whatever.
I'm not blaming anyone for wanting a union. I was in BALPA for many years and when push came to shove after 9/11, I got screwed. So have a union by all means , just don't expect self sacrificing altruism from the members when it really matters. I was in another industry and another union before I started flying. Same deal, sold out. The union brass all walked away with management positions. If you want further proof of how you can be shafted, look no further than our esteemed government in the UK and what they did to all us working stiffs.
Flying can be a great job but it really is a rotten career unless you are very lucky and manage to be at the right place at the right time, every time.
Good luck to all genuine jobseekers. The rest of you, put those bloody chequebooks away and have some respect for the rest of us who depend on this business to live.
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Leaving aside aviation for a moment, you honestly think you´d be in a better postion if there would not have been strong unions in key industries?
One surely can find bad examples and yes, there a union people I would not buy a car from. But the opposite is true also, I personally know a guy who did a lot of negotiating on behalf of the Cargolux pilots and this guy is a perfectly honest man and achieved alot (they have not been in the same position as NJE now is, I have to admit). Surely there is one honest guy who could be a spokesperson for the pilots in NetJets Europe ? Or are there just 'singlehanders' like you, Northern Boy?
'United we stand, divided we fall' is as true as it ever was.
BTW, I´m not in NJ.
One surely can find bad examples and yes, there a union people I would not buy a car from. But the opposite is true also, I personally know a guy who did a lot of negotiating on behalf of the Cargolux pilots and this guy is a perfectly honest man and achieved alot (they have not been in the same position as NJE now is, I have to admit). Surely there is one honest guy who could be a spokesperson for the pilots in NetJets Europe ? Or are there just 'singlehanders' like you, Northern Boy?
'United we stand, divided we fall' is as true as it ever was.
BTW, I´m not in NJ.