NetJets Transportes Aereos Pilots Union
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Ouch.
Bit harsh HD. I don't think Northern Boy is so much a 'singlehander' as someone who has been mistreated, let down, stitched up or misled by someone who should have been there to fight his corner. Under those circumstances his cynicism is understandable.
Bit harsh HD. I don't think Northern Boy is so much a 'singlehander' as someone who has been mistreated, let down, stitched up or misled by someone who should have been there to fight his corner. Under those circumstances his cynicism is understandable.
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His dudeness,
Fraternal greetings comrade. Let me ask you a question.
You buy a dog. Dogs are nice and good company. This dog however gives you an enormous bite requiring hospital treatment. Being convinced that dogs are a good thing, you give Fido another chance. A month later, Fido bites the face off your six year old daughter and savages your wife.
What would you do? would you consign doggy to the big kennel in the sky or would you continue to believe he was a good idea? Would you furthermore describe anyone who doubts the wisdom of dog ownership as prejudiced?
I 'm not sure what you mean by "single hander" but I doubt it was meant as a compliment.
Unions are run by people, so are aviation companies and every other business on earth. People are scared, greedy, selfish and put their own interests above those of others every time and when questioned will lie or "confabulate" as the trendies have it, to make themselves look good.That is what makes us human and such sterling qualities have ensured our survival as a species through the ages. We are hard wired to be like this. Collective action is only ever undertaken when it benefits the individuals concerned. As soon as the goal is reached, we go back to being individuals again. This is the exact reason that Socialism, Communism and all the other "isms" don't work and have had to be enforced at the point of a gun before collapsing.
We are imperfect. That however is the way that we are. We can try and act in concert to improve things and occasionally it may work. When threatened however, we act to protect ourselves, our families and our interests and if that means p*****g all over our fellows then we do it and sleep soundly afterwards. For an example, look at the behavior of the police, social services and local authorities over the recent child abuse and bullying scandals in the UK. Their primary concern is to cover their fat behinds and convince themselves that they are wonderful
When I finally realised this, I stopped relying on the idea that others would fight to ensure I was treated fairly and started to rely on myself. I now suffer a lot less stress. If people don't like me, I shrug because I trust no one until I have reason and proof to do otherwise.
This industry runs on tiny profit margins compared to most businesses. As a result it is the first to suffer from any cold economic wind. If it was run by union activists rather than accountants, nothing would change. The activists would either become accountants or go broke. Those are the facts. We all chose to enter the business, even if some of us wish we hadn't and so should accept that yes, flying is seductive and can be great fun and gives us all a great self image (maybe less so now that we have all lost our senses over "green" issues) however it is a business where luck plays a huge part in a career and is the only one that I know of where experience counts for absolutely nothing and all that matters is the date you happened to join or your ability to pay. (See Ryanair, bmi and soon everyone else.) Unions in my experience fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo.
I used to be wide eyed and innocent and thought the world was fair, right up until I started flying for a living.
Sadder and wiser now.
Fraternal greetings comrade. Let me ask you a question.
You buy a dog. Dogs are nice and good company. This dog however gives you an enormous bite requiring hospital treatment. Being convinced that dogs are a good thing, you give Fido another chance. A month later, Fido bites the face off your six year old daughter and savages your wife.
What would you do? would you consign doggy to the big kennel in the sky or would you continue to believe he was a good idea? Would you furthermore describe anyone who doubts the wisdom of dog ownership as prejudiced?
I 'm not sure what you mean by "single hander" but I doubt it was meant as a compliment.
Unions are run by people, so are aviation companies and every other business on earth. People are scared, greedy, selfish and put their own interests above those of others every time and when questioned will lie or "confabulate" as the trendies have it, to make themselves look good.That is what makes us human and such sterling qualities have ensured our survival as a species through the ages. We are hard wired to be like this. Collective action is only ever undertaken when it benefits the individuals concerned. As soon as the goal is reached, we go back to being individuals again. This is the exact reason that Socialism, Communism and all the other "isms" don't work and have had to be enforced at the point of a gun before collapsing.
We are imperfect. That however is the way that we are. We can try and act in concert to improve things and occasionally it may work. When threatened however, we act to protect ourselves, our families and our interests and if that means p*****g all over our fellows then we do it and sleep soundly afterwards. For an example, look at the behavior of the police, social services and local authorities over the recent child abuse and bullying scandals in the UK. Their primary concern is to cover their fat behinds and convince themselves that they are wonderful
When I finally realised this, I stopped relying on the idea that others would fight to ensure I was treated fairly and started to rely on myself. I now suffer a lot less stress. If people don't like me, I shrug because I trust no one until I have reason and proof to do otherwise.
This industry runs on tiny profit margins compared to most businesses. As a result it is the first to suffer from any cold economic wind. If it was run by union activists rather than accountants, nothing would change. The activists would either become accountants or go broke. Those are the facts. We all chose to enter the business, even if some of us wish we hadn't and so should accept that yes, flying is seductive and can be great fun and gives us all a great self image (maybe less so now that we have all lost our senses over "green" issues) however it is a business where luck plays a huge part in a career and is the only one that I know of where experience counts for absolutely nothing and all that matters is the date you happened to join or your ability to pay. (See Ryanair, bmi and soon everyone else.) Unions in my experience fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo.
I used to be wide eyed and innocent and thought the world was fair, right up until I started flying for a living.
Sadder and wiser now.
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Wise words Northern Chap!!
The question is "which would NJE pilots put their trust in more: the current management (who are, in the main, a known entity) or union representatives"??
Power corrupts - FACT! Be it management or unions. I don't know the answer, until now I've always thought a union wasn't needed, but maybe it is. As long as its not run by some of our more 'vocal' NJE exponents!!!
The question is "which would NJE pilots put their trust in more: the current management (who are, in the main, a known entity) or union representatives"??
Power corrupts - FACT! Be it management or unions. I don't know the answer, until now I've always thought a union wasn't needed, but maybe it is. As long as its not run by some of our more 'vocal' NJE exponents!!!
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Agreed Spaniel. One only has to look at the calibre of our politicians to realise that those who seek power are by definition the least suitable to hold it.
The only representatives I would even begin to trust are those who are dragged kicking and screaming into the position for a limited period and then released gratefully back into the wild. A bit like jury service. That goes for any position of power, union rep or government official. Anyone who campaigns to get into a position where they can f**k us all up should be automatically suspect and probably locked away for the protection of society at large.
Public service should be a solemn duty, not a career for greasy little sods who are unable or unwilling to find honest employment.
By the way Spaniel, I didn't have you in mind when I wrote my doggy analogy. Please don't be offended, I'm sure you never bit anyone.
The only representatives I would even begin to trust are those who are dragged kicking and screaming into the position for a limited period and then released gratefully back into the wild. A bit like jury service. That goes for any position of power, union rep or government official. Anyone who campaigns to get into a position where they can f**k us all up should be automatically suspect and probably locked away for the protection of society at large.
Public service should be a solemn duty, not a career for greasy little sods who are unable or unwilling to find honest employment.
By the way Spaniel, I didn't have you in mind when I wrote my doggy analogy. Please don't be offended, I'm sure you never bit anyone.
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'singelhander' as in in single hand crew, flying alone...(wasn´t meant to be offensive btw...)
Well, I don´t find your view to be of any help, but of course, its your opinion, and I honestly think unions have and will achieve more than all individuals together.
Just look at some non-unionized compnies and how they treat their employees.
I was unionized as an electrician in my former life and was actually an active member.
Unions - as much as political parties - need input from their members, otherwise they might become tools for people with hidden agendas. I don´t think there could possibly be the ideal union, in selected cases there will be sufferers. Every member wants his interest put in front. Thats human.
But all in all, its betterto have a union than not.
What if actually NJE did not come up with their progressive solution they now have? If they just would have fired 300 guys/gals? Then a union would possibly been a good thing to have.
Well, I don´t find your view to be of any help, but of course, its your opinion, and I honestly think unions have and will achieve more than all individuals together.
Just look at some non-unionized compnies and how they treat their employees.
I was unionized as an electrician in my former life and was actually an active member.
Unions - as much as political parties - need input from their members, otherwise they might become tools for people with hidden agendas. I don´t think there could possibly be the ideal union, in selected cases there will be sufferers. Every member wants his interest put in front. Thats human.
But all in all, its betterto have a union than not.
What if actually NJE did not come up with their progressive solution they now have? If they just would have fired 300 guys/gals? Then a union would possibly been a good thing to have.
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northern boy
Not sure what the whole dog argument is about, if your bitch bites the head off of your kid, it seems to me that you lack the skills in training the dog and should get a fish or something, a bird is good too.
Having said that, please allow me to correct you on the bit about the negative characteristics of the human mind being hardwired into the brain. The mind observes, stores, recalls and classifies the impulses it is subject to. Your outing on negativity shows rather accurate what your mind has been subject to and I am sorry to see that. Rest assured, it can be cured.
However, it is exactly this dog-eat-dog mentality that you put on display, that feeds the negative. Certainly a shift in culture is present when it comes to personnel politics but not because it is hardwired into the brain. The sole reason for it is greed, an emotion which feeds of the general sense of dissatisfaction and is formalised under the general header of globalism. I leave it to the floor whether this capitalistic invention is a success or not.
With respect to the so-called failure of socialism and communism, please bear in mind that you are now interchanging political and economical systems without distinction. Along those lines though, capitalism is the only one of these three systems that has it's errors "hard-wired" into the system. If you have difficulty following me because your troubled mind cannot cope with reality, take a brief pause and examine my words by looking into the past, as far back as October 29th, 1929.
Back to the union topic: union means joining, joining is done through mutual understanding, something not reflected in your post. A labour union, to be more specific tries to achieve improvements in working conditions. Traditionally this is done by experts in the industry with profound knowledge of the branch it represents. The rip-off mentality that you mention is one that is, again, fed by greed. Much like the stockholder, we as pilots whine about the amount of dough in our pockets at every possible occasion. In that respect we and the shareholders have more in common than appears at first glance. The only way to make actual progress starts with a "U" and ends with "niting", applied to both sides of the company. The second step as I am sure you have guessed by now is to rid the greed.
Your frustration about a political economical event, initiated in the head of the capitalistic world some eight years ago has left you a poor man.
Wish you well
Having said that, please allow me to correct you on the bit about the negative characteristics of the human mind being hardwired into the brain. The mind observes, stores, recalls and classifies the impulses it is subject to. Your outing on negativity shows rather accurate what your mind has been subject to and I am sorry to see that. Rest assured, it can be cured.
However, it is exactly this dog-eat-dog mentality that you put on display, that feeds the negative. Certainly a shift in culture is present when it comes to personnel politics but not because it is hardwired into the brain. The sole reason for it is greed, an emotion which feeds of the general sense of dissatisfaction and is formalised under the general header of globalism. I leave it to the floor whether this capitalistic invention is a success or not.
With respect to the so-called failure of socialism and communism, please bear in mind that you are now interchanging political and economical systems without distinction. Along those lines though, capitalism is the only one of these three systems that has it's errors "hard-wired" into the system. If you have difficulty following me because your troubled mind cannot cope with reality, take a brief pause and examine my words by looking into the past, as far back as October 29th, 1929.
Back to the union topic: union means joining, joining is done through mutual understanding, something not reflected in your post. A labour union, to be more specific tries to achieve improvements in working conditions. Traditionally this is done by experts in the industry with profound knowledge of the branch it represents. The rip-off mentality that you mention is one that is, again, fed by greed. Much like the stockholder, we as pilots whine about the amount of dough in our pockets at every possible occasion. In that respect we and the shareholders have more in common than appears at first glance. The only way to make actual progress starts with a "U" and ends with "niting", applied to both sides of the company. The second step as I am sure you have guessed by now is to rid the greed.
Your frustration about a political economical event, initiated in the head of the capitalistic world some eight years ago has left you a poor man.
Wish you well
