Single Turbine Taxi in UK?
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Southern UK
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Single Turbine Taxi in UK?
Hi all,
I seem to remember that several years ago there was a lot of talk about allowing single turbine aircraft (Caravan, TBM700, etc) to operate as air taxi / cargo, including IFR ops, in the UK. The argument at the time was that the single turbine aircraft were at least as safe as the 'older' MEP aircraft (Seneca, Navajo, etc).
Did anything happen about all this, or is anything likely to happen ?
It seems to me that they would be a viable alternative to the propective fleets of VLJ taxis that are planned as well as a sound replacement for the older MEP taxis.
I seem to remember that several years ago there was a lot of talk about allowing single turbine aircraft (Caravan, TBM700, etc) to operate as air taxi / cargo, including IFR ops, in the UK. The argument at the time was that the single turbine aircraft were at least as safe as the 'older' MEP aircraft (Seneca, Navajo, etc).
Did anything happen about all this, or is anything likely to happen ?
It seems to me that they would be a viable alternative to the propective fleets of VLJ taxis that are planned as well as a sound replacement for the older MEP taxis.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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EU-OPS prohibits IFR AOC operations on single-engine turbine aircraft.
Therefore, good or bad, the dream of flying punters throughout Europe on TBM700, PC-12 or Cessna Caravan has been shelved for an undertermined period of time ...
Therefore, good or bad, the dream of flying punters throughout Europe on TBM700, PC-12 or Cessna Caravan has been shelved for an undertermined period of time ...
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Commercial operations by SE turbine powered aircraft at night and IMC are approved in certain countries. Scandinavia, France, Spain, Greece but only by those operators who hold an AOC issued by their local NAA that permits such operations, all cargo only. As the UK do not permit such operations by aircraft registered in any country then such operations are prohibited in UK airspace.
Providing you comply with the weather minima for take off, for landing and for the alternate for 2 hours after ETA then the on route weather can be solid IMC and if so equipped flight can be made in forecast icing conditions, but only with turbine pwered aircraft such as the C208, PC12 and TBM 750/800 as they have a proven record of reliabilty.
The EU have told EASA to stop re-inventing the wheel and adopt either JAA or ICAO recomendations. I hope they will do so in respect of SE-IMC operations.
After 10+ years of JAA procrastination the JAA decided to pass the SE-IMC baton on to EASA. Meanwhile ICAO recomended the adoption of SE IMC operations basically in accordance with the proposal made by the long serving JAA SE IMC Working Group chaired by the saldly missed Ronald Ashford (ex CAA).
EASA commissioned a report from Quinetic but the report was flawed as the 'consultants' failed to even contact established operators who had any real experience in flying these aircraft (those in Scandinavia) and to established the conditions underwhich they had been safely operating for many years.
Yes there were problems with the C208 cargo ops in the USA with overloading and flight into Impossible icing conditions. Now that the approval for such flights will not be granted until the pilots have beeen through an approved 'icing awareness course' then the losses have stopped.
TBM, PC 12s and to a lesser extent the C208 are widely used in Europe for co-ownership, fractional flights in the same weather as ME Turbine such as King Airs.
The evidence is that based on worldwide commercial operations the SE Turbine aircraft, when flown by suitably qualified pilots and within the limitations of the AFM, are just as safe as ME Turbine aircraft and considerably safer than ME pistons.
It is not on the EASA Agenda for an NPA until 2011 perhaps somebody should push for an earlier date.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
Providing you comply with the weather minima for take off, for landing and for the alternate for 2 hours after ETA then the on route weather can be solid IMC and if so equipped flight can be made in forecast icing conditions, but only with turbine pwered aircraft such as the C208, PC12 and TBM 750/800 as they have a proven record of reliabilty.
The EU have told EASA to stop re-inventing the wheel and adopt either JAA or ICAO recomendations. I hope they will do so in respect of SE-IMC operations.
After 10+ years of JAA procrastination the JAA decided to pass the SE-IMC baton on to EASA. Meanwhile ICAO recomended the adoption of SE IMC operations basically in accordance with the proposal made by the long serving JAA SE IMC Working Group chaired by the saldly missed Ronald Ashford (ex CAA).
EASA commissioned a report from Quinetic but the report was flawed as the 'consultants' failed to even contact established operators who had any real experience in flying these aircraft (those in Scandinavia) and to established the conditions underwhich they had been safely operating for many years.
Yes there were problems with the C208 cargo ops in the USA with overloading and flight into Impossible icing conditions. Now that the approval for such flights will not be granted until the pilots have beeen through an approved 'icing awareness course' then the losses have stopped.
TBM, PC 12s and to a lesser extent the C208 are widely used in Europe for co-ownership, fractional flights in the same weather as ME Turbine such as King Airs.
The evidence is that based on worldwide commercial operations the SE Turbine aircraft, when flown by suitably qualified pilots and within the limitations of the AFM, are just as safe as ME Turbine aircraft and considerably safer than ME pistons.
It is not on the EASA Agenda for an NPA until 2011 perhaps somebody should push for an earlier date.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
