Sovereign Pay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,439
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"I dont get it. You're saying that you consider £60k per year the equivalent of working for food....or for free?? That's not what I said is it? I said that you should charge the going rate....the going rate for a Sovereign Captain is about the £60k-£65k mark as an average and that this sum is pretty good. If you think that is a paultry sum, then you're clearly doing well depsite being so seemingly miserable in what you do and you should be thankful....not "have it in" for all aircraft owners."
You don´t. (get it) Irony is clearly not your strong point.
60 to 65K is to little pay for a Sov captain. IMO. I don´t consider this sum as being good. The sovereign is capable of going long stretches and it often does. Meaning long flight times and times away from home. Thats what matters, apart from experience and knowledge one should have to do such flights. I´m doing well and I am thankful. I´m not miserable. The aircraft owners can afford a 16 to 18 million dollar airplane but 20-30 K a year is too much? What can you safe with intelligent fuel tankering, directs, let alone maintenance etcetc., ask yourself and you know that the potential to save is huge. That given, the guys in the back would not hesitate to ask for huge amounts for this sort of advise, should THEY be asked for it (think about an advisor or bankers or the like)
I see my job as getting people from A to B with as little expense as possible and as much expense as needed to do it safely. I find it only naturely to ask them for an adequate compensation. (which comes very natural to them)
E.g.: I did make an operations manual which was crosschecked by a law firm. It went through without a single change and then went to the authority that nodded as well. Do you know what the lawfirm asked and was paid for that check? My boss is a lawyer himself, so he knew exactly what would come along. The amount is about twice the difference between 65K and what I consider as being a decent Sov captains pay. That money was simply wasted. So if they can waste such amounts, why should I....
"We all have to put up in the Corporate world, of flying people round with huge sums of cash....but hey, what does it matter? When you're lying on your death bed one day in the future, taking your last gasp of air, you'll realise it doesnt matter a jot."
I never disputed that. In fact, the only thing that matters to me in this respect is wether I lived a life that enables me to look at myself in the mirror without having to vomit. I started my career as an electrician, worked my way into cooperate aviation and if I´m lucky enough to finish out as a pilot, good. If not (which I consider likely given oil shortage etcetc), I won´t die of shame.
"It sounds like you've had a bit of a volatile working relationship with your employers, be them past, present or both. I guess it's all relative. I still inject as much enthusiasm into my job as I can, depsite the downs I have to encounter and of course, I appreciate the ups"
I had good and bad in the past, my current employers are absolutely okay.
My overall experience is: if you do more than your contract says, nobody will give you credit for that. If the company asks more than on the contract and you don´t do it, everybody will know it in no time. And this is out of balance in my opinion.
Having said that, I will do my best at all times, but I won´t do it when been dramatically underpaid.
Going back to the pay, sure its all relative, if you fly twice a week for a few hours and are home the most time, than it might be okay to pay 65K.(who does that in a Sov?) But if you going to be overnighting some 130 days a year and do, say, 500-600 hrs, then it is too little. Especially if it is a 24/7/365 outfit, that wants you to move etcetc. Way to little. IMO. Your are entitled to your own opinion of course.
My company considered selling the airplane, put it up for sale and no buyer with reasonable priced offers showed up. So they kept the airplane. I have ALL figures of the airplane costs here and the crew - despite being payed well - is a very small number compared to the rest. The hangarage alone is more then my F/O´s pay.
IF we would have offered to fly for half (then being well below 65K) it would have changed nothing - this info is from the CFO directly.
Think about that. I did.
BTW, board members renewed their contract in said time period and I did not see a press release on lower pay for board members, from which I draw the conclusion that has been no pay cut for them. Think about it. I did.
For a long time in my working history I thaught not being too greedy and just work well and beyond expectations would save me. It does not, that is my experience. Therefore I try to play the game by 'their' rules take what you can for good work.
For anyone with a different experience, good on you!
You don´t. (get it) Irony is clearly not your strong point.
60 to 65K is to little pay for a Sov captain. IMO. I don´t consider this sum as being good. The sovereign is capable of going long stretches and it often does. Meaning long flight times and times away from home. Thats what matters, apart from experience and knowledge one should have to do such flights. I´m doing well and I am thankful. I´m not miserable. The aircraft owners can afford a 16 to 18 million dollar airplane but 20-30 K a year is too much? What can you safe with intelligent fuel tankering, directs, let alone maintenance etcetc., ask yourself and you know that the potential to save is huge. That given, the guys in the back would not hesitate to ask for huge amounts for this sort of advise, should THEY be asked for it (think about an advisor or bankers or the like)
I see my job as getting people from A to B with as little expense as possible and as much expense as needed to do it safely. I find it only naturely to ask them for an adequate compensation. (which comes very natural to them)
E.g.: I did make an operations manual which was crosschecked by a law firm. It went through without a single change and then went to the authority that nodded as well. Do you know what the lawfirm asked and was paid for that check? My boss is a lawyer himself, so he knew exactly what would come along. The amount is about twice the difference between 65K and what I consider as being a decent Sov captains pay. That money was simply wasted. So if they can waste such amounts, why should I....
"We all have to put up in the Corporate world, of flying people round with huge sums of cash....but hey, what does it matter? When you're lying on your death bed one day in the future, taking your last gasp of air, you'll realise it doesnt matter a jot."
I never disputed that. In fact, the only thing that matters to me in this respect is wether I lived a life that enables me to look at myself in the mirror without having to vomit. I started my career as an electrician, worked my way into cooperate aviation and if I´m lucky enough to finish out as a pilot, good. If not (which I consider likely given oil shortage etcetc), I won´t die of shame.
"It sounds like you've had a bit of a volatile working relationship with your employers, be them past, present or both. I guess it's all relative. I still inject as much enthusiasm into my job as I can, depsite the downs I have to encounter and of course, I appreciate the ups"
I had good and bad in the past, my current employers are absolutely okay.
My overall experience is: if you do more than your contract says, nobody will give you credit for that. If the company asks more than on the contract and you don´t do it, everybody will know it in no time. And this is out of balance in my opinion.
Having said that, I will do my best at all times, but I won´t do it when been dramatically underpaid.
Going back to the pay, sure its all relative, if you fly twice a week for a few hours and are home the most time, than it might be okay to pay 65K.(who does that in a Sov?) But if you going to be overnighting some 130 days a year and do, say, 500-600 hrs, then it is too little. Especially if it is a 24/7/365 outfit, that wants you to move etcetc. Way to little. IMO. Your are entitled to your own opinion of course.
My company considered selling the airplane, put it up for sale and no buyer with reasonable priced offers showed up. So they kept the airplane. I have ALL figures of the airplane costs here and the crew - despite being payed well - is a very small number compared to the rest. The hangarage alone is more then my F/O´s pay.
IF we would have offered to fly for half (then being well below 65K) it would have changed nothing - this info is from the CFO directly.
Think about that. I did.
BTW, board members renewed their contract in said time period and I did not see a press release on lower pay for board members, from which I draw the conclusion that has been no pay cut for them. Think about it. I did.
For a long time in my working history I thaught not being too greedy and just work well and beyond expectations would save me. It does not, that is my experience. Therefore I try to play the game by 'their' rules take what you can for good work.
For anyone with a different experience, good on you!
