Flying with the owner
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Flying with the owner
Evening all, I fly for a CJ Owner and not only do I fly for him but with him. I was wondering what other people flying with an aircraft owner have made. From what I have heard from other pilots having the same sort of job, it always seems to be the same pattern: the owner flying has the attitude that he knows-it-all, MCC is non-existing, always the same discussions why certain thing have to be made the way they have to be made etc. At least, the owner I fly for is fair enough to swap seats at every leg. I have heard about a/c owners who are always on the left-hand seat and do all the flying themselves.
Cecco
Cecco
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Interesting one - I think you will find many in a similar situation and have to agree with your comment about the attitude you are faced with. Early in my career I flew for an owner (Beech King Air F90) and who was a wealthy, arrogant individual with a PPL. I became entrapped as a result of having sold him the aircraft back in the days when I was involved in aircraft sales. After a few months of intolerable scenarios in the cockpit, and one massive "blow up" - I suggested he finds another Pilot to fly him around. The next two after me lasted one month and thre months respectively. Today that owner no longer has an aircraft!
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Owners have obviously created their wealth by having a "never say no" and very goal minded attitude. Put this into a cockpit and you have a recipe for disaster. Remember that we get paid to back-off at the right times and push on at others.. professional decision making. These guys will always push and try to get their way.. after all, its how they have succeded in the board room right?
Alot of these entrepreneur-types seem to never take NO for an answer and will always want to overcome all issues and this includes denying the risks that show up. I worked for a management company where I was told to disregard certain things as the " chances of it happening are very small" by the owner/self-typed PIC ... As a captain I just laughed and did it my way, but this did create a stress situation for the F/O's who had to fly with the PIC muppet.
Also, they love the whole swaggering thru the FBO with the gold bling on the shoulders, leaving you to sort EVERYTHING out on the pre/ post- flight.
Alot of these entrepreneur-types seem to never take NO for an answer and will always want to overcome all issues and this includes denying the risks that show up. I worked for a management company where I was told to disregard certain things as the " chances of it happening are very small" by the owner/self-typed PIC ... As a captain I just laughed and did it my way, but this did create a stress situation for the F/O's who had to fly with the PIC muppet.
Also, they love the whole swaggering thru the FBO with the gold bling on the shoulders, leaving you to sort EVERYTHING out on the pre/ post- flight.
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Flew with an owner for many years on a B200. The airplane was on an AOC, the owner was a PPL (the golden, pre JAROPS years). It mostly was a pleasure. This guy never wore Uniform or any other blingbling. CRM was a problem, sure, but if the advice given was backed with real info, then we did get along. One example was the flaps speed, he regurlary missed to observe limitations.
I asked my mx shop for a quote on a flaps motor and a statement that it would wear quicker when abused and all of a sudden we lowered the flaps only below the placarded speeds. Far from ideal, but a workable solution. I did some flying only recently with an owner operator with cpl/ifr who does commercial flying. This one is pure horror, none of his flying is influenced by knowledge or regard for existing laws and regs.
So its as always, it very much depends on the individual.
I asked my mx shop for a quote on a flaps motor and a statement that it would wear quicker when abused and all of a sudden we lowered the flaps only below the placarded speeds. Far from ideal, but a workable solution. I did some flying only recently with an owner operator with cpl/ifr who does commercial flying. This one is pure horror, none of his flying is influenced by knowledge or regard for existing laws and regs.
So its as always, it very much depends on the individual.
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Quote:
and all of a sudden we lowered the flaps only below the placarded speeds.
I hope it was well below the placarded speed. It annoys me when pilots consistently drop the flaps at the placarded speed, it is poor planning and inefficient. When questioned invariably the answer is "well that is the allowed speed". Yes it is, but when I ask what the red line on the tacho of their car is and get the reply 6500 rpm I ask them if the always rev to the red line before changing gear. That normally changes their habit. Unless there are other considerations using max speed - 10% will prolong the intergrity of your airframe considerably. The cost of flap attachment brackets on the Hawker run into 10's of thousands.
and all of a sudden we lowered the flaps only below the placarded speeds.
I hope it was well below the placarded speed. It annoys me when pilots consistently drop the flaps at the placarded speed, it is poor planning and inefficient. When questioned invariably the answer is "well that is the allowed speed". Yes it is, but when I ask what the red line on the tacho of their car is and get the reply 6500 rpm I ask them if the always rev to the red line before changing gear. That normally changes their habit. Unless there are other considerations using max speed - 10% will prolong the intergrity of your airframe considerably. The cost of flap attachment brackets on the Hawker run into 10's of thousands.
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Look here wise guys I never said I have had to buy a broken flap bracket it is just what I have been told. Many 125 operators have had to cough up, luckily not me. Stop trying to be cute.
Cute? Not been called that for a while.
Fred, amusing comment.
The above is a real concern. There are some good guys out there. I remember one owner who flew like I would like to, and I was the full time professional!
On the other hand recently decided to end part time free lance project I was on for the very reasons above, despite the current climate.
Take care and remember when it matters the money doesn't.
MM
The above is a real concern. There are some good guys out there. I remember one owner who flew like I would like to, and I was the full time professional!
On the other hand recently decided to end part time free lance project I was on for the very reasons above, despite the current climate.
Take care and remember when it matters the money doesn't.
MM
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...of Owners and Aircraft
I think flyingwise I am lucky that the owner did the first couple of hundred hours on the CJ with a TRI who showed him what to do and particularly what NOT to do before I took on the job. This basework was certainly harder than what I have to cope with. @LRdriverIII: "leaving you to sort EVERYTHING out on the pre/ post- flight". For me it's the same but actually I prefer to that all myself because the owner is ALWAYS in a hurry. No matter if it is before or after a meeting he's going to. I once made the mistake to get to the a/c together with the owner who expected us to get moving right away...pre-flight check, what is that???
I have flown with two owner pilots. One was of the opinion that I knew more than him, the other thought he knew more than me. Both were a delight to fly with, and I still keep in touch with both years after the fact.
It is rewarding when someone wants to learn from your expertise, but even if they don't they can still be a pleasure to fly with.
In no case would I put up with poor treatment, and in no case would I allow anyone to operate the airplane unsafely when I am the PIC.
It is rewarding when someone wants to learn from your expertise, but even if they don't they can still be a pleasure to fly with.
In no case would I put up with poor treatment, and in no case would I allow anyone to operate the airplane unsafely when I am the PIC.
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Flying with the owner from time to time. He's the professional in his job, I'm in mine. My decisions count more than his as I got the higher license he says. Great guy to work with.
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Yes it is, but when I ask what the red line on the tacho of their car is and get the reply 6500 rpm I ask them if the always rev to the red line before changing gear.
Red line this is it..
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...I do also the paperwork regarding the CJ and to the owner's mind, everything is too expensive. Standard question: why is it so expensive, can't that be cheaper, why can't we, why don't we.....quite tedious!! When you own such an aircraft, you don't whine about every bill you have to pay...let me put it this way: the CJ deserves a better owner
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what a hell
i fly for a rated owner o a citation...its all bull****. he always flys on his own, absolut no use of checklists or any briefings, no ccc, no recurrent traing, my main duty is rogramming fms, radio, and make sure he finds the way to destination. hope to get away soon...!!!
