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Part 91 Operation of Transport Category Aircraft

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Part 91 Operation of Transport Category Aircraft

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Old 8th Jul 2009, 07:35
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Part 91 Operation of Transport Category Aircraft

Hi I've heard that the FAA will no longer allow Transport Category Aircraft B727 etc to be operated on Part 91. I've searched the FAA site but found nothing. Can anyone advise what where and when this limitation appeared.

Thanks alot in advance
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Old 8th Jul 2009, 15:55
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since quite awhile ago,

to the best of my knowledge Part-125 is what's needed..
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Old 8th Jul 2009, 18:06
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Part 125 has been the requirement for as long as I can remember.
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Old 8th Jul 2009, 19:47
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you are right..

125 has been around for a long time, and a couple of Bizboeings from the 80's on that I had been involved in had been operated 125..

guess a lot of folks mix up the 91 rules that everbody has to obey with the requirements that are stipulated by weight class etc etc
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 01:24
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Part 125 is:
CERTIFICATION AND OPERATIONS: AIRPLANES HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 20 OR MORE PASSENGERS OR A MAXIMUM PAYLOAD CAPACITY OF 6,000 POUNDS OR MORE; AND RULES GOVERNING PERSONS ON BOARD SUCH AIRCRAFT
Those are not, per the FARs, "Transport Category Aircraft". Or rather, not ALL such aircraft.

Part 25 is
AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS: TRANSPORT CATEGORY AIRPLANES
The choice to apply for Part 25 certification is open for aircraft which do not meet the criteria of Part 125. Most if not all "upper range" business jets are certified under Part 25, and are thus "Transport Category Aircraft". Yet they in many cases don't fall under the Part 125 rules (quite intentionally I believe). Note that Part 125 does not have the words "transport category" in the title.

It's even theoretically possible for a Part 23 aircraft to come under Part 125 (though in fact no such aircraft exists to my knowledge). How? Well Part 23 Commuter category aircraft have a seating limit, but no payload limit other than that constrained by the 19,000lbs MTOW. If someone were to somehow manage to design an aircraft with an MTOW of 19,000lbs and squeeze in a cargo capacity of 6,000lbs it could come under Part 125.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 07:50
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Thanks alot for all that.

I was actually after a aircraft approved per FAR 25. ie a B727 but then converted to VIP with maximum seating for 19.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 09:52
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I would have thought that they were certified under FAR25 and then operated under FAR91 or FAR125.

Mutt
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:43
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Yes Sorry Mutt this is what I mean.

To be operated under Part 91 as 19 Seater for Personal transport only.
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Old 9th Jul 2009, 13:52
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At one time, these types of operations with large aircraft were regulated under 14CFR91 Subpart D.
All this was changed some years ago, and these large aircraft, operated for private use (IE, not common carriage) are regulated under 14CFR125 and, a specific operating certificate must be obtained from the local FSDO.
In addition, 14CFR125 is now under review, with a possibility of regulatory requirements being enhanced....read more expensive.
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Old 10th Jul 2009, 07:11
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OK Thanks. I was missinformed it had only just come into force.

Where is this ruling as 14CFR91 subpart F is still there for large and turbine-powered MultiEngine Airplanes.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...4:2.0.1.3.10.6

91.501 Para 4 still allows transport for personal transport.
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Old 10th Jul 2009, 08:22
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Thanks for that.

What about 14CFR91 Subpart f. Large and Turbine-Powered Multi-engine aircraft.

Para 91.501, b, 4

(4) Flights conducted by the operator of an airplane for his personal transportation, or the transportation of his guests when no charge, assessment, or fee is made for the transportation;
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Old 11th Jul 2009, 13:23
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New Regs?

Dunno if this is relevant but perhaps the new SFAR109 applies. It was in the June ammendments of our Jepp manuals.

Cheers

Sorry don't have an online link to it.
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Old 11th Jul 2009, 20:23
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You'll be hard pressed to find a part 25 727, cuz there ain't none.
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Old 12th Jul 2009, 03:50
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What about 14CFR91 Subpart f. Large and Turbine-Powered Multi-engine aircraft.
This generally applies to business jets and other large piston/turbopropellor types with a payload of less then 6000 pounds and/or a seating capacity of less than 30 passengers.

Note however, the larger business jets (BBJ, 727, 737, 707, DC-9 etc) generally require a 14CFR125 operating certificate or, an exemption issued by the FAA flight standards district office.
This is to ensure pilot training and aircraft maintenance are accomplished properly.
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Old 12th Jul 2009, 17:33
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Note however, the larger business jets (BBJ, 727, 737, 707, DC-9 etc) generally require a 14CFR125 operating certificate or, an exemption issued by the FAA flight standards district office.
This is to ensure pilot training and aircraft maintenance are accomplished properly.
It is my understanding that the 14CFR125 exemptions are being allowed to expire and when the exemption does expire no new exemptions will be granted. This is to force all private operators of the large business jets to get a 125 certificate. I was informed that this was partly due to so called security issues, which is total nonsense.
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Old 12th Jul 2009, 19:13
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Whatever the reasoning may be, FSDO has been requiring 125 certification for the situation described for several years now. Sole Part 91 days are over.
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