Airline flying to biz jet flying - the transition
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Airline flying to biz jet flying - the transition
Hello all,
I am wanting to gather peoples thoughts on what it is like to move away from airlines flying (specifically there and backs from the UK to holiday destinations) to biz jet flying.
I would like to hear from people that have done it (both good and bad experiences), from people that have thought about it (but didn't - why not?). Also if you know of anyone that has done it then that also would be great. Is there must variety in your world?
I would also like to ask the question of money. Many people say you earn alot less in the biz jet world when compared to airline flying. BUT having looked at money related threads and other sites I can't see much truth in it? Thoughts on this would be great.
A little about me :-
I work for a UK based charter airline. I have done for just over 4 years.
I have 2500 hrs total time.
I have widebody experience.
Many thanks!
L Met
I am wanting to gather peoples thoughts on what it is like to move away from airlines flying (specifically there and backs from the UK to holiday destinations) to biz jet flying.
I would like to hear from people that have done it (both good and bad experiences), from people that have thought about it (but didn't - why not?). Also if you know of anyone that has done it then that also would be great. Is there must variety in your world?
I would also like to ask the question of money. Many people say you earn alot less in the biz jet world when compared to airline flying. BUT having looked at money related threads and other sites I can't see much truth in it? Thoughts on this would be great.
A little about me :-
I work for a UK based charter airline. I have done for just over 4 years.
I have 2500 hrs total time.
I have widebody experience.
Many thanks!
L Met
Join Date: Nov 2000
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The whole business jet world fell headlong off a cliff last October and is showing little sign of recovering. Read the threads in this section, the order of the day is redundancies, enforced reduction in working and sadly companies in trouble. If you have 4 years seniority in an airline I would stay put. Corporate flying has many advantages over the airline world but job security is not one of them at the present time.
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Thank you for your reply.
Granted the current climate is poor but one thing is for sure is the next thing around the corner is an upturn. We must be positive, yet realistic! So apart from that what are the advantages that I can add to my list/see if I already have them.
Thanks,
L Met
Granted the current climate is poor but one thing is for sure is the next thing around the corner is an upturn. We must be positive, yet realistic! So apart from that what are the advantages that I can add to my list/see if I already have them.
Thanks,
L Met
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I made the change, or rather was forced to make the change when my employer hit the skids at the end of August last year.
I have to agree with Northern Boy, if you are after job security..then Biz Aviation is probably the wrong move, although having said that, my impression of the market place is that small to midsize jet operators have experienced the steepest decline in demand. Larger jets have been affected far less.
the job itself is a COMPLETELY different animal, flying probably makes up 15% of the overall process, on top of that you need to consider your client/owners catering and personal requirements, are they nervous flyers? (you'd be surprised how many high net worth individuals and celebrities who are!) are you liasing with a broker or a client..or both? operating into unfamiliar airports with little or no back up, negotiating fuel prices and handling costs..and then there is the last minute scramble when the phone rings to say the Pax are here! Dear I mention the numerous customs/special branch/border protection hoops you might need to jump through as your passengers might attract a certain level of attention.
Then there are Hotels to arrange...but thats another thread on its own!
As for money, it depends...if you fly with a top notch operator, you'll earn more than you would with a charter outfit..or BA for that matter, if you fly for a shonky operator, you could be waiting months to get paid..its all relative.
For me, I get far greater job satisfaction in this job than I ever did flying a Boeing...again having said that, I'm constantly looking at options should the axe fall etc.
Hope this helps
I have to agree with Northern Boy, if you are after job security..then Biz Aviation is probably the wrong move, although having said that, my impression of the market place is that small to midsize jet operators have experienced the steepest decline in demand. Larger jets have been affected far less.
the job itself is a COMPLETELY different animal, flying probably makes up 15% of the overall process, on top of that you need to consider your client/owners catering and personal requirements, are they nervous flyers? (you'd be surprised how many high net worth individuals and celebrities who are!) are you liasing with a broker or a client..or both? operating into unfamiliar airports with little or no back up, negotiating fuel prices and handling costs..and then there is the last minute scramble when the phone rings to say the Pax are here! Dear I mention the numerous customs/special branch/border protection hoops you might need to jump through as your passengers might attract a certain level of attention.
Then there are Hotels to arrange...but thats another thread on its own!
As for money, it depends...if you fly with a top notch operator, you'll earn more than you would with a charter outfit..or BA for that matter, if you fly for a shonky operator, you could be waiting months to get paid..its all relative.
For me, I get far greater job satisfaction in this job than I ever did flying a Boeing...again having said that, I'm constantly looking at options should the axe fall etc.
Hope this helps
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you need to be adaptable and forget airline practise, equally Northern Boy is right. Few UK operators are upto the mark, my lot have been but the cracks are showing from the stress!!!
good luck
good luck
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Hi there- I did the transition,on my own will. After having flown some 16 years of major Airlines, I can just say I LOVE IT!!
But:
1. I am not from the UK nor do I live there
2. I am still flying on an Airliner Aircraft and as mentioned, job security is better on large aircraft.
3. I am thankful for every year of Airline I have done as in Biz Operation you will probably encounter some funny ideas and that is where your experience and airmanship kicks in!
4. As an FO it is maybe not too much of fun sometimes as many customers these days ask for 2 Captains
5. Time to upgrade if available at all, has to be considered. You will always fall behind a direct entry Captain as most of the companies do not have a structure based on seniority but are based on cost only
6. I enjoy my block of days off-Great! On the other hand it happens that I have to start duty earlier than planned and work longer. I have to be more flexible than before.
Hope this helps! Puh
But:
1. I am not from the UK nor do I live there
2. I am still flying on an Airliner Aircraft and as mentioned, job security is better on large aircraft.
3. I am thankful for every year of Airline I have done as in Biz Operation you will probably encounter some funny ideas and that is where your experience and airmanship kicks in!
4. As an FO it is maybe not too much of fun sometimes as many customers these days ask for 2 Captains
5. Time to upgrade if available at all, has to be considered. You will always fall behind a direct entry Captain as most of the companies do not have a structure based on seniority but are based on cost only
6. I enjoy my block of days off-Great! On the other hand it happens that I have to start duty earlier than planned and work longer. I have to be more flexible than before.
Hope this helps! Puh
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Great replies so far, many thanks.
I have been offered a direct entry command on a citation. The lure of a command is not my motivation. It is though a consideration as I was aware of the point pullup hard made regarding having two captains on board. If I entered the business as a F/O then I have to be upgraded, if I enter as a captain (providing it all goes well) I am in the door.
L Met
I have been offered a direct entry command on a citation. The lure of a command is not my motivation. It is though a consideration as I was aware of the point pullup hard made regarding having two captains on board. If I entered the business as a F/O then I have to be upgraded, if I enter as a captain (providing it all goes well) I am in the door.
L Met
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Hello
I never flew for an airliner but i give you my opinion for the biz jets:
What i like about my job is the good roster 6on/5off (at the moment). Money is also good. And the aircraft is fun to fly. I don't have a clue how it goes in the airlines but we are allowed to fly completely manually (raw data), which is a good excercise.
What i don't like is the waiting process. Some customers consider the plane as a taxi and show up 4 hours too late. So you need to have a lot of patience. Considering catering, hotels, fuel etc, it al depends where you are working. Some biz operators have a nice dispatch which do everything (planning, hotel etc) and yes, some biz operators don't. This means a lot of longer duty time for you. Also some pilots lack the sop's which can lead to uncomfortable situations.
Concerning job security, i'm not sure if you have more or less security in the biz industry than the airline industry.
My opinion.
Good luck anyway!!!
I never flew for an airliner but i give you my opinion for the biz jets:
What i like about my job is the good roster 6on/5off (at the moment). Money is also good. And the aircraft is fun to fly. I don't have a clue how it goes in the airlines but we are allowed to fly completely manually (raw data), which is a good excercise.
What i don't like is the waiting process. Some customers consider the plane as a taxi and show up 4 hours too late. So you need to have a lot of patience. Considering catering, hotels, fuel etc, it al depends where you are working. Some biz operators have a nice dispatch which do everything (planning, hotel etc) and yes, some biz operators don't. This means a lot of longer duty time for you. Also some pilots lack the sop's which can lead to uncomfortable situations.
Concerning job security, i'm not sure if you have more or less security in the biz industry than the airline industry.
My opinion.
Good luck anyway!!!
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Beware Citation operators
I note you've been offered a Citation post.. Well done. However, if you can PM me which operator, I could probably tell you whether they are crooked or not.. Many are, and need to be avoided at all costs...
Best
TPG
Best
TPG
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I think he means 24/7 Jet i think at Southend.
Just my point as i been made redundant too recently from flying a Citation.
Not sure how you got the job, but if your being offered a DEC at this present time, take a step back to think why i am being offered it, when there will be many more Pilots out there with the time on type who havent taken it.
just a thought.
Like why is that house that cheap, there is a reason
Just my point as i been made redundant too recently from flying a Citation.
Not sure how you got the job, but if your being offered a DEC at this present time, take a step back to think why i am being offered it, when there will be many more Pilots out there with the time on type who havent taken it.
just a thought.
Like why is that house that cheap, there is a reason
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I'm OK, i won 30 on Murray, had Roddick at 3/1,
OK if you know them thats why.
It will take a brave man to leave a "secure" job at the moment, unless you know that the new job is secure as it can be.
If you want my personal experiences in GA, PM me, rather than start an arguemnt on here
OK if you know them thats why.
It will take a brave man to leave a "secure" job at the moment, unless you know that the new job is secure as it can be.
If you want my personal experiences in GA, PM me, rather than start an arguemnt on here
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L met:
Also consider Aircraft type: I dont know whether Citation is THE typerating to progress any further or whether it is a dead end. On the other hand, you will be in the LH side and with a bit of luck, that means LH side for the next airplane too?? I still understand that Gulfstream or GLEX are the bizjet ratings that are most valuable.
Flintstone: Lets hope that fabulous Roger makes it back again- sorry for Murray, but not ready for No 1 yet
!Go Roger,go!!
Also consider Aircraft type: I dont know whether Citation is THE typerating to progress any further or whether it is a dead end. On the other hand, you will be in the LH side and with a bit of luck, that means LH side for the next airplane too?? I still understand that Gulfstream or GLEX are the bizjet ratings that are most valuable.
Flintstone: Lets hope that fabulous Roger makes it back again- sorry for Murray, but not ready for No 1 yet
!Go Roger,go!!