Oxford Airport (Parking, Beware!)
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Oxford Airport (Parking, Beware!)
I just want to offer some advice which happened to me at Oxford airport recently.
As not being based here, i went through security with my ID and was told where to park by security and the company i was doing some flying with.
Today 2 weeks on, i have been hit with a £150-00 parking fine that has just dropped through the letterbox. Apparently i was 16 minutes over my free two hours.
I have called the airport manger who states there is nothing that can be done its out of the airports hands. he said there are signs about but i never saw any and to be honest i wasn't looking for any, i have never been charged to park a car airside before.
So if your going there to do freelance or visit, please be careful, or if you are thinking of basing an aircraft there, seriously think twice about it, imaging if that was one of your passenger's.
As not being based here, i went through security with my ID and was told where to park by security and the company i was doing some flying with.
Today 2 weeks on, i have been hit with a £150-00 parking fine that has just dropped through the letterbox. Apparently i was 16 minutes over my free two hours.
I have called the airport manger who states there is nothing that can be done its out of the airports hands. he said there are signs about but i never saw any and to be honest i wasn't looking for any, i have never been charged to park a car airside before.
So if your going there to do freelance or visit, please be careful, or if you are thinking of basing an aircraft there, seriously think twice about it, imaging if that was one of your passenger's.
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As all good sim instructors tell you when the big red light comes on do nothing, sit on your hands. There is every likelihood that you can just ignore this and get away with your £150 in your pocket where it belongs. You need to do a little studying though. In the meantime, and I cannot emphasise this enough, do not respond to any letters, emails, phone calls or indeed engage with these people in any way, shape or form. Got that? Good 
Get a cup of tea, a packet of digestives then visit pepipoo.com and pistonheads.com for a good, long read. Both are good but Pepipoo is more specifically aimed at speeding fines and parking whereas Pistonheads is wider ranging with one pertinent forum ('Speeding, Plod And The Law').
Speeding is usually cut and dried as you are required by law to identify the driver at the time of the offence whereas (and I'm sure someone like Flying Lawyer will correct my ham-fisted attempts at legalspeak) these parking fines/charges/rip-offs are deemed a breach of contract whereby 'they' post up the terms and conditions on a sign and you agree to them by parking. You could argue that you didn't see the sign but that a) contravenes what I wrote in the first paragraph and b) rarely wins unless you have photographic evidence and are prepared to go to Court.
"If I ignore them won't they just appoint bailliffs, kick my door down and take away my widescreen and first-born?" No. Because here's where these 'fines' differ from speeding or other road offences. To send you the demand for money with menaces the parking company have a contract with the DVLA that allows them to buy the details of the registered keeper of a vehicle (insert rant about right to privacy here). Just because they have the keeper's details though does not mean they know who the driver was and to find that out they need you to tell them. Which you won't of course because you are not legally obliged to do so.
Like I said, go and spend an hour or so reading Pepipoo. A lot will depend upon the nature of the parking area and the company involved but if it's the same arrangement as at supermarkets, petrol stations and the like they can go whistle up their own shiny hoop and both websites will provide you with letters in the correct legalese to tell them so.
Get a cup of tea, a packet of digestives then visit pepipoo.com and pistonheads.com for a good, long read. Both are good but Pepipoo is more specifically aimed at speeding fines and parking whereas Pistonheads is wider ranging with one pertinent forum ('Speeding, Plod And The Law').
Speeding is usually cut and dried as you are required by law to identify the driver at the time of the offence whereas (and I'm sure someone like Flying Lawyer will correct my ham-fisted attempts at legalspeak) these parking fines/charges/rip-offs are deemed a breach of contract whereby 'they' post up the terms and conditions on a sign and you agree to them by parking. You could argue that you didn't see the sign but that a) contravenes what I wrote in the first paragraph and b) rarely wins unless you have photographic evidence and are prepared to go to Court.
"If I ignore them won't they just appoint bailliffs, kick my door down and take away my widescreen and first-born?" No. Because here's where these 'fines' differ from speeding or other road offences. To send you the demand for money with menaces the parking company have a contract with the DVLA that allows them to buy the details of the registered keeper of a vehicle (insert rant about right to privacy here). Just because they have the keeper's details though does not mean they know who the driver was and to find that out they need you to tell them. Which you won't of course because you are not legally obliged to do so.
Like I said, go and spend an hour or so reading Pepipoo. A lot will depend upon the nature of the parking area and the company involved but if it's the same arrangement as at supermarkets, petrol stations and the like they can go whistle up their own shiny hoop and both websites will provide you with letters in the correct legalese to tell them so.
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ITFC1 Thanks for the warning, we are in and out of there fairly often with both pax and crew swaps so will make all aware. There is nothing like an airport making you feel welcome............
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I was at EGTK the other week and noticed these signs - I think they are pretty new.
This kind of crap seems to be the preserve of scabby private contractors.
Good luck with getting it sorted.
This kind of crap seems to be the preserve of scabby private contractors.
Good luck with getting it sorted.
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Thanks for the tips guys, appreciate it.
Of course not being based there i never knew it was a new thing, but i have never considered paying once i am airside.
The airport manager told me, that you have to call on a mobile phone to get credit to park there, what if i dont have a mobile? what if i am flying longer than the two hours, are we supposed to land, call up then take off again.
Its a total and uter disgrace in my opinion, they should have just walked into my house, took £150-00 out of my wallet and left.
Not that it woudl be in there as the wife woudl have got there first!!
Of course not being based there i never knew it was a new thing, but i have never considered paying once i am airside.
The airport manager told me, that you have to call on a mobile phone to get credit to park there, what if i dont have a mobile? what if i am flying longer than the two hours, are we supposed to land, call up then take off again.
Its a total and uter disgrace in my opinion, they should have just walked into my house, took £150-00 out of my wallet and left.
Not that it woudl be in there as the wife woudl have got there first!!
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No excuse but...........
I am in total agreement with you all about the parking fees at Oxford being apalling. In defense of the airport management and as weak an argument as it will sound, they have had no control over the implementation of the parking fines/clamping etc. It has been enforced by the London head office that owns the company. The airport management strongly opposed the car park fees, fines and clamps being introduced but were overuled by head office who leave the management to clean up the mess that they have made.
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No excuse for not reading big yellow signs
I'm a pilot based at Oxford and a member of the resident aircraft owners group (www.oaoag.org.uk ) and although having to pay as a non-resident visitor to Oxford may rub some people up the wrong way, the facts are that if you don't read the signs (which are pretty large, bright yellow boards at the entrance to the visitor's car park with extra ones dotted around in the middle), and you stay over the two hours free period, if you don't pay when you should have, you'll get done.
As a point of note for PPRUNERS, the new parking measures at Oxford are as follows:
Resident pilots/aircraft owners - free parking once vehicle details are registered with management
GA/Business Aircraft passengers - free parking up at the new terminal building
Non-resident visitors/commercial passengers - free parking all weekends, then between 06:00 to 17:30, Monday to Friday, it's free parking for the first two hours, then £3, payable any time on the day (before midnight) over the phone using a debit/credit card. Out of those hours it's free again.
As a point of note for PPRUNERS, the new parking measures at Oxford are as follows:
Resident pilots/aircraft owners - free parking once vehicle details are registered with management
GA/Business Aircraft passengers - free parking up at the new terminal building
Non-resident visitors/commercial passengers - free parking all weekends, then between 06:00 to 17:30, Monday to Friday, it's free parking for the first two hours, then £3, payable any time on the day (before midnight) over the phone using a debit/credit card. Out of those hours it's free again.
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I'm based at Oxford. Our company has assigned parking thankfully.
I agree the signs are not clear enough.
A company called "Parking Control" are responsible for issuing fines at the Airport.
Until recently they were clamping vehicles as well but apparently one of the Oxford Airport bosses had their Rolls Royce clamped (!) and has now banned them from clamping on the airport site!!
TrafficPilot
I agree the signs are not clear enough.
A company called "Parking Control" are responsible for issuing fines at the Airport.
Until recently they were clamping vehicles as well but apparently one of the Oxford Airport bosses had their Rolls Royce clamped (!) and has now banned them from clamping on the airport site!!
TrafficPilot
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Originally Posted by OAGAG
.......if you don't pay when you should have, you'll get done.
I think not Mr Bond.........FightBack Forums -> Parking and Decriminalised Notices
More specifically Truths and myths - FightBack Forums
I absolutely echo what Flinstone says. It happened to me once and those websites (pepipoo in particular) explain how the law works.
As Flintstone says it is based very loosely on contract law which is not a criminal matter at all, and it's on dodgy ground to be a civil matter as well. Basically the 'fine' they send you is an invoice made up to look like a penalty charge notice. The only parking tickets that have any weight in law are ones issued directly on the car - i.e local councils, police and railway carparks anything else you can just ignore (within reason).
You'll get several letters increasing the 'fine' and adding charges, each one getting slightly more threatening. Then a debt collection agency will write to you saying the matter has been passed to them - and add another £20 for writing this letter etc!
I did reply to each letter, never admitting who the driver was but stating the facts and challenging them to prove otherwise. (I think the website suggests to do this so that in the very vague chance that it does go to a county court you can show you have tried to discuss the matter).
I never got any replies in return, just more "pay up" letters. Eventually I told them to issue proceedings against me otherwise stop harassing me or I would file charges against them. Since then I haven't heard anything (18 months ago).
Don't pay them!
As Flintstone says it is based very loosely on contract law which is not a criminal matter at all, and it's on dodgy ground to be a civil matter as well. Basically the 'fine' they send you is an invoice made up to look like a penalty charge notice. The only parking tickets that have any weight in law are ones issued directly on the car - i.e local councils, police and railway carparks anything else you can just ignore (within reason).
You'll get several letters increasing the 'fine' and adding charges, each one getting slightly more threatening. Then a debt collection agency will write to you saying the matter has been passed to them - and add another £20 for writing this letter etc!
I did reply to each letter, never admitting who the driver was but stating the facts and challenging them to prove otherwise. (I think the website suggests to do this so that in the very vague chance that it does go to a county court you can show you have tried to discuss the matter).
I never got any replies in return, just more "pay up" letters. Eventually I told them to issue proceedings against me otherwise stop harassing me or I would file charges against them. Since then I haven't heard anything (18 months ago).
Don't pay them!
Again - it's on dodgy ground but it didn't happen to me so I didn't read up on it in depth. I think the view though is to reluctantly pay them so you get the use of your car back (don't attempt to take it off because that would be criminal damage) and then persue the company through the Small Claims Court for the money back.
There's something in case law (contracts) about the cost being proportional to the contract and in this case I don't believe it is - another point in your favour.
There's something in case law (contracts) about the cost being proportional to the contract and in this case I don't believe it is - another point in your favour.
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Dont know if it makes a difference before paying/not, but those car park entrances are all monitored by cameras and ANPR so they can prove how long you were there and possibly may have a picture of the driver?
Dodgy revenue streams...
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capt sparrow
I'd like to see them prove that you didn't leave in the meantime and return. I had a letter from some cheeky f'er at Tesco saying I'd been there all day and if I did it again I'd have to pay. Why the fork would I want to spend all day in Tesco? Of course picking up some lunch on the way in to work, and remembering something I needed for dinner on the way back, maybe. Deeply stupid, their PR department should deal humanely but finally with the muppets who suggested that approach.
I'd like to see them prove that you didn't leave in the meantime and return. I had a letter from some cheeky f'er at Tesco saying I'd been there all day and if I did it again I'd have to pay. Why the fork would I want to spend all day in Tesco? Of course picking up some lunch on the way in to work, and remembering something I needed for dinner on the way back, maybe. Deeply stupid, their PR department should deal humanely but finally with the muppets who suggested that approach.
