Luton: Stepped Climb

[Heatedfuelreturn]

I fear that I over stepped the climb recently, how soon before the UK ATC send a report to my CAA.??

Is there a ppruner who has access to the list of bad boys, who can confirm.????

obverheated fuel return

[Empty Cruise]

HFR,

well, if you think you've busted an altitude you should file an ASR with your operator / MOR with your local CAA. In that way, you would have dealt with your part of the bargain.

Also, you could speak with your pilots union, they might be able to offer advice on how to deal with the legal side of things.

Finally, you could contact LTN LACC directly and ask if anything has been filed against you. Contact your LTN FBO, they'll be able to get you the relevant phone no.

Hope all goes well - all the best,

Empty

[dynamite dean]

What a bummer sorry to hear that dont beat yourself up too much sh1t happens , I wish things were easier in our three dimensional world...

[BigNumber]

HFR,

If ATC did not ask you to check your climb at the time my money say's that you got away with it.

Frankly whilst we all try to avoid 'level busts'; it can, and does happen to the very best of us. Don't beat yourself up mate.

Don't make the event into something it isn't.. note it.. learn.. have a beer..move on

BN

[Paradise Lost]

I'm amazed that you had to comply with the "step-climb", as in at least 100 departures out of LTN, I have never had to follow the SID once. Despite the warning with your clearance of, " Caution, stepped climb!", it never actually happens.
Good luck!

[hawker750]

stepped climbs

HFR
This matter is the subject of great confusion and the subject of a FODCOM (notice from CAA). The Brits have decided not to align themselves with european standard RT phraseology on whether a stepped climb has been cancelled or not. The confusion is so great that on a recent departure from Luton I asked this specific question to ATC because their RT did not conform to the FODCOM .. "Does that clearance you gave me cancel the step climb requirements of the SID"? I got no reply!
If you were not warned at the time you had violated and would be reported then I would put my money on that nothing more will happen. If you do get reported then do not wory about it it is a flight safety issue and this issue really does need better clarification. FODCOM 16/2009 deals with this subject and is a typical Brtish/CAA fudge. People should read it but it is addressed only to British AOC holders, though it is available on the web. Comment from others please

[CL300]

until it happens... The most common error is to dial the last assigned altitude of the SID ie 5000 ft instead of 3000 ft or VNAV that is not called up correctly...
3 years ago with the level bust campaign along with mode S radar implementation, Luton radar was reporting potential level busts, mainly because the ASEL was set to the last level of the SID, and the crews elected to use VNAV in climb..
Sometimes technology causes issues...

[hawker750]

Stepped climbs

FODCOM 16/2009 states " for aircraft on a SID the word 'now' will be added to climb clearances above SID profile. eg JET 123 climb now to FL 120 means that the aircraft should climb directly to FL 120. ignoring the verticle profile of SID.
In my example out of Luton I was claered to climb to 6000' without the word NOW added. I queried it but no reply. It will take ATC controllers a long time to get used to the new phraseology. If in doubt keep to the step climb profile.

The word NOW is only in the UK elsewhere in Europe different

[Heatedfuelreturn]

Thanks guys

Even as a Brit, I am not based there, or using a UK licence, but would have thought the EU, was an equal playing field.....never mind...licence safe for another few days....
As was suggested the final level was in the 'lert and aircraft in Vpath mode.
Not my prefered way, but then I was only the voice not the brains, on this sector.

Again many thanks.

hfr

[Joe le Taxi]

mainly because the ASEL was set to the last level of the SID, and the crews elected to use VNAV in climb..

I can only speak for Boeings, but a correctly programmed FMS will fly the steps as per the SID, with VNAV active and only the final altitude in the window.

Infact I would always fly it this way - putting the first altitude in the window is just asking to level off, and then forget that you need to resume a climb to the next altitude - Using VNAV makes compliance with the steps automatic.

Of course, if you start punching the ALT knob, then you'll go deleting altitudes in the FMS!

[733driver]

Correct, and CL300 didn't say any different. He just said that the controller can possibly see your selected altitude (final step) on his mode S readout and may think that you have selected an altitute you were not (yet) cleared to.

[Joe le Taxi]

I see what you mean now - thx. It has never occurred to me that ATC might think I'm going to bust the SID by putting the final alt in the window.

I've never had them query it though.