PPRuNe Forums

Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th May 2009, 19:13   #1 (permalink)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
Age: 47
Posts: 1,119
Hawker 800XP....snap rolled 3-4 times

Hawker 800XP....snap rolled 3-4 times

Ripples are 1-2 inches deep and they run almost the entire length of the plane on both sides. The fuse windows weren't level anymore when you stood back and looked at them. I heard it torqued so bad that the interior galley drawers and cabinets were jammed and wouldn't open. Don't know if that's true.

You can see the area just above the wing roots; they are rippled from leading edge to trailing edge. I can tell you, where the wings mate to the fuse, itís like ripple city and the rivets/screws looked like they were riding on waves. In between each window, the same ripples as the other side.

STORY. This is what I was told by the people that were there when the plane rolled in. They are employees of the FBO and know the owner and everyone involved.

It came from Mexico back to FXE, the captain that flew it back was a licensed Mexican pilot, no FAA licenses or ratings. Captain was hired as a contract pilot just for this trip. The co-pilot was from here and he was also just used as a contract pilot to get the plane back here. When they got back to FXE where the owner was waiting, of course they flipped out as the plane rolled into parking. The captain or the co- pilot had no idea YET of the damage that was caused. When asked, "what the F$CK happened?" He apparently at some point said he made a hard landing. YET, the tires and gear were perfect. The FAA and insurance company had questioned them on what happened and they stuck to that story for 9 days. Finally, the co-pilot talked (good for him BTW). He said the Captain wanted to snap roll it...not aileron roll it....SNAP ROLL it like a Pitts. Fuel still in wing tanks, moron. Supposedly it was done 3-4 times. By this time, when the co-pilot talked, the captain had gone back to Mexico. Not sure yet what the FAA is going to do with the co-pilot though. He'll probably get a pass, he was just flying with a scum bag captain.

Its being fixed I guess and returning to service. I heard it was very low-time and only a few years old. Not sure on that. I certainly wouldn't fly it after seeingwhat I saw, no way. Maybe someone with more accurate or detailed info can chime in.

MORE TO THE STORY..............

New pictures and a story update.

Spoke with the mechanics working on it today. Still actually not sure if it will fly again, they are still tearing into it. Found out yesterday that the right wing is history, bent beyond repair. You can actually see it up close, where the aluminum is actually stretched and separating at some points.


They did roll it 4 times. What caused all the damage was when on the last two rolls, the pilot got scared and cranked the yoke back the other way to stop the roll and go back to upright. He got about halfway around and got scared and jerked it back real hard, thatís what twisted everything, instead of continuing the roll in the original direction. Whatís funny is, he got scared on roll #3, then tried again and got scared again, so it was hardcore twisted two times.

This wing is trashed and the wing root is twisted.

Engines were ok, pylons were ok, but a couple mounts are being replaced because of stress. They havenít even checked the airframe around the windscreens yet, that could be the deal breaker.

Anybody have the tail number????

BlenderPilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2009, 19:31   #2 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 66
Hawkers - tough as old boots

Blimey, that doesn't look so good. Hawkers of course are legendary for their strength and ability to fly when all 'essential' systems are lost. There was the famous Botswana/Malawi Hawker 800 that had an engine shot off by a sidewinder over Angola I think - holes everywhere but pilot landed safely and considered flying out again with litterally one engine, hydraulic pipes dangling everywhere. Was repaired and still flies today. Highest time Quantas training Hawker did 50K landings or more I think. The USAF did some rolls in theirs when testing the C-FIN aircraft used for flight inspection.

Manual flying controls - all cables and pulleys and can fly with no electrical power or hydraulic services whatsoever. Maxaret brakes make for excellent landing performance with full blown lift-dump, aerodynamic brick wall.

Hawkers - indestructable. No safer business jet when all is lost and nothing works!
Winniebago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2009, 19:50   #3 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bed
Posts: 169
Shouldve rolled it back twice the other way to undo the damage......

sangiovese. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2009, 19:56   #4 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: land
Posts: 179
That the Captain hasn't a brain in his head is beyond dispute. It also appears he is not the smoothest handler of an aircraft. Once the wings are twisted, then it is a total loss/beyond economical repair, IMHO.

I wonder if he treats his women like that?
joehunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th May 2009, 20:06   #5 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: France
Posts: 611
Hawker 800XP

If a pilot did this on purpose, he should find it hard to continue employment in the Aviation Industry.

The HS 125 series is well known for being a tough and reliable Biz Jet but no Corporate Jet should be subject to this type of action.

Tmbstory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 03:35   #6 (permalink)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a hotel somewhere
Posts: 13
As usual, take most ANYTHING you see on the internet with a grain of salt. There may be more to the story but here is the official report for this aircraft.


NTSB Identification: DFW08WA091
Nonscheduled 14 CFR
Accident occurred Friday, March 28, 2008 in Monterrey, Mexico
Aircraft: British Aerospace 800A, registration: N167DD
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
On March 28, 2008, at 0808 central standard time N167DD, a British Aerospace BAE 125 model 800A was substantially damaged while landing on runway 02 at Aeropuerta de Norte, near Monterrey, Mexico. After landing the crew taxied the airplane to the hanger and did not report the occurrence. Maintenance personnel noticed substantial damage to the fuselage and wings while performing routine maintenance.

The passenger airplane, serial number 258068, is owned by Aircraft Guaranty Holdings and Trust LLC Trustee in Houston, Texas. The flight initiated in Toluca, Mexico with Monterrey, Mexico as the intended destination. None of crew and passengers were injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight.

The investigation is under the jurisdiction and control of the Government of the Republic of Mexico. Any further information may be obtained from:

Secretaria de Comunicaciones y Trasportes
Direccion General de Aeronautica Civil (DGAC)
Providencia 807, Cuarto Piso
Colonia del Valle, Codigo Postal 03100
Mexico, D.F.

This report is for informational purposes only and contains only information released by, or obtained from the DGAC of the Republic of Mexico.
FlatTwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 06:57   #7 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Age: 68
Posts: 50

I read what Blender posted, but where did that story come from with these details? The NTSB report says nothing.

Jetwhine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 08:20   #8 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: land
Posts: 179
Flat Twin

Tend to agree with what you are saying.

On the other hand, if I bought an a/c back in that state, then I would have to admit I have some serious issues to confront. Baring in mind the HS series a/c are built like tanks, something pretty serious has occurred to bend that a/c into that shape.

What is even more troubling, if true, the crew did not find it necessary to report the incident. This is a crime in itself.
joehunt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 09:35   #9 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 547
I'm no engineer...

.... but am having difficulty reconciling the ripple-damage to a heavy landing. Any comments?Please? Chers bm
BoeingMEL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 13:28   #10 (permalink)
Posts: n/a
Talking of scepticism, are you sure that's the NTSB report? You'd think they could spell 'hangar' properly
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th May 2009, 14:03   #11 (permalink)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: US
Posts: 597
Here's a link to it on the NTSB web site: DFW08WA091
OFBSLF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2009, 03:18   #12 (permalink)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: canada
Posts: 39
WTF Some people............
spitfires rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2009, 10:04   #13 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Qatar & Sometimes Oxfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 201
Well you know.........like they say.......if at first you don't succeed........
Chinchilla.612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2009, 10:06   #14 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Qatar & Sometimes Oxfordshire
Age: 39
Posts: 201
........STOP and find someone who knows what they're doing.
Chinchilla.612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2009, 21:14   #15 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tween Hurn&Filton
Posts: 216
Finally, the co-pilot talked (good for him BTW).
A complete, matching, unmitigated pair of morons IMHO. After the captain attempted the first roll, the co-p should have been shouting, let alone trying to cover it up for "several days".
They're both lucky that a) they were in a 125 and b) to be alive. They should be prosecuted, have ALL licences removed and be given a spell in clink to ponder their crass stupidity.
Paradise Lost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2009, 11:09   #16 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 3rd ROCK FROM THE SUN
Posts: 317
i agree PL, the C-PL should have made it clear that he is opposed to it, especially when confronted about the incident. The fact that he didnt means he is just as much to blame as the Capt... or am i wrong?

GULF69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2009, 11:21   #17 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: HonkyDong
Posts: 236
Words fail me!
BizJetJockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2009, 18:25   #18 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Surrounding the localizer
Posts: 2,174
Words fail me!
Me two, you'd have thought he would have tried a few knife edge passes as well
haughtney1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2009, 07:31   #19 (permalink)
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Posts: 4,203
Dammit. I should have known that last snap was a bad idea and stuck to the original plan to finish with a half roll and pull through. I blame it on the copilot's poor Aresti notation.
Tinstaafl is offline   Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT. The time now is 23:37.

© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1