FTL

[tyndalljet]

Gentlemen,

I am writing as a crew of a VP-B registered aircraft holding a Bermuda Validation against my locally issued ATPL. The issue here is that we have been doing flights that exceeds way beyond the FTL stated in the Ops Manual both in two men or three men operations. I however wish to make a stop to this for once and for all. I understand that my Chief Pilot have already informed the company about the problem the crew is facing with few suggestions such as employing more crew or hiring contract pilots whenever the need arises but went to no avail. I personally wish to put my stand clear that we should not go on like this. If i may have your opinion/suggestions and course of actions to be taken on how to go about dealing with the company. Thank you.

[airmen]

Are you flying commercial or private?

[tyndalljet]

We are private category...Thx

[cldrvr]

FTL on a privately operated Bahaman registered aircraft?

Don't think I can get more negatives in one sentence. No such thing. Purely voluntary.

Good luck getting one accepted by the owner.

[tyndalljet]

Well..we actually already have one Ops Manual with a complete table of FTL, it's just the owner never bothered to read or even bothered to know and understand. So do i have a case against them now?

[FL470]

I don't think that you stand a chance - from a legal point of view that is. Your company needs to come up with new standards and try to sell them to your owner.

BTW: I'm in the same situation. We use common sense - if we are to tired we go to a hotel - no matter what.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

FTL applies to commercial OPS, not private ops although some private operators like to say they operate according to JAR OPS (or whatever) which generally means... Only when it is practical to do so. Kind of a feel good statement for the owner/management company who tries to sell the aircraft for the odd trip.

I don't think you have a case.

[Paradise Lost]

Right now the FTLs in the ANO Overseas Territories is on deferral until October 1st. CLDRVR seems to believe your a/c is Bahaman(?) but as you appear to be Bermudan reg. these FTL's will become compulsory in about 6 months after which time they become mandatory. Every VP-B a/c has to have the ANO aboard at Cof A renewal, so if you haven't got one, you need to get one.
Quite a few operators with more integrity than others have already implemented the new FTL's (ANO O/T came into being last March); others pleaded for time -hence the agreed deferral date- in order to take on the extra crews that will be required. Hopefully tyndalljet that will alleviate your dilemma. This applies to all Bermudan reg. a/c regardless of private or commercial status.

[Green Cactus]

paradise lost, I'm also flying a VP-B.. registered airplane, and haven't looked at an updated version of the ANO since the beginning of 2008. (As we are transitioning to EU-ops, that has had most of my attention....)

Would you have an online copy/link to the bermuda ideas of an FTL scheme?

I will take a look next time I'm in the airplane but an online version would be nice.....

[chimbu warrior]

Is it true that N-registered aircraft operating under Part 91 have no flight & duty time limits?

Heard a case of a bizjet operating from London to Auckland (New Zealand) with just 2 cockpit crew and stopping only for gas a couple of years ago. Apparently CAA NZ were not too impressed.

Why do some owners spend millions on a corporate jet, and then put their safety at risk by insisting on a tired/fatgued/potentially dangerous crew?

[ed1016nw]

Tis true.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

these FTL's will become compulsory in about 6 months after which time they become mandatory.

Paradise Lost could you confirm that these FTLs will apply to privately owned/operated aircrafts ? Or have I misunderstood it.

Why do some owners spend millions on a corporate jet, and then put their safety at risk by insisting on a tired/fatgued/potentially dangerous crew?

A few years back I worked for a guy who had recently bought a plane for and on behalf of the company he owned. To be fair to him, he worked very hard himself to a point that I don't think he understood why people needed holidays, days off or whatever. Just like him.
Anyway, I flew his aircraft around which he had bought to replace the trucks/lories he had been using to carry some of his more precious cago.
So the way I reckon he looked at it was.
"I work long hours, so should anybodu else".
"My truck drivers could drive endless hours (old school), so can my (single) pilot". Again, himself had driven those trucks during endless hours...

I don't think he ever saw it as a more than a more modern (effcient) tool to do his buisness. The fact that it was a plane, dangling in the air with no means of pausing when the crap hits you and that the more tired the pilot was, to more painful it will be when you get hit by the previously mentioned crap, never registered with him. And he was an intelligent man...

[Paradise Lost]

ANO application.

Cactus and AMEX, yes these regs. definitely apply to private ops. and though I didn't say so in my earlier post, I'm fairly sure that you cannot operate VP (now VQ as well) B or C a/c on commercial ops anyway!
I suggested in a reply to a pm re. the same that if you Google either "BDA' or "Civil Aviation Authority of the Cayman Islands", you will be able to find the refs you need. Unfortunately I don't have the FTL's scanned but each operator needs to have a 'personalised' approved copy of the ANO on board the a/c.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Thanks Paradise Lost. About the commercial use of a VP A/C, I had that in mind too which is why I got even more confused. Having FTLs for private ops on a flag which is usually seen as a convenient way to avoid certain rules (be Taxation or else), I am pleasantly surprised.

[flybyshark]

AN(OT)O

Part 5 of REQUIREMENTS FOR THE REGISTRATION AND AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATION OF AIRCRAFT (Private Category) IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS : "Although the AN(OT)O does not specifically address operational standards for aircraft registered in the "Private Category", it is expected that the operator will ensure initial and recurrent crew training is conducted annually, and that some form of control is exercised in respect of flight and duty time limitations"

Doesnt stipulate any specific FTL enforcement. Only that 'some form of control is exercised'

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Only that 'some form of control is exercised'

In that case, quite a difference. So unless the operator/owner sees a true benefit in exercising a form of control of real use, then private ops, remains private ops with the (in)appropriate FTLs that comes with it).

Disclaimer: I agree, some private ops are as professional as any other ops and do take FTLs issues (and the rest) seriously. More seriously than rogue public transport operators that is.

[farmer jo]

I am presently setting up an operation on Bermuda Reg -things have changed in the last year !!
By October 31st all Bermuda Operators (in fact all Countries covered by AN(OT)O will need ):
An approved General Operations Manual which will include an approved SMS , FTL , the FTL will be more restictive than the FAA Part 91 rules !!
Unfortunately this isn't optional and C of A renewal may be refused for non compliance - not my words !!
I have not yet seen any approved Bermuda FTL ?
Bermuda told me today you do not need AN(T)O on Board as OPs manual will cover it !!
All corporate operators are covered under OTARS Part 125,
ATP

[Paradise Lost]

fbs, thanks for doing the work! Seems like the Cayman Civil Aviation haven't gone as far as the BDA in terms of FTLs, because the Bermudans have incorporated proposed FTLs in their own Annex in the ANO. Operators may vary those limits but only with the approval of the authority.

[727 exec]

I'm no expert, but I've recently been working for a VP-B Operator...they are working hard to achieve IS-BAO status which the Bermudans seem to like as then all the manuals (including FTL) are approved. The FTL scheme is put forward by the Operator and, if accepted by Bermuda, becomes mandatory in October...and it definitely applies to part 91 ops.

Bermuda have stated that they will not renew C of A's after October if these steps have not been completed.

I understand that Bermuda are expecting to see real and significant progress towards the IS-BAO approval before the cut off date...last minute.com'ers may get a nasty shock in terms of cost and inability to operate if they don't take this seriously.

...but - I'm no expert!!!!!

[farmer jo]

I think you are right. They sent a letter out in FEB 2008 outlining their requirements and now people are paniking to get compliant !!

Below is part of an email from Head Flight Ops Iinspector :

For a start all Bermuda registered aircraft will be required to have approval under Article 85 of the AN(OT)O 2007. This is like a poor-mans AOC, and the acceptable means of compliance is mainly OTAR Part 125. The required date for compliance is 1st November 2009. Those 2 documents can be downloaded from the ASSI website (they are the regulators of the BDCA). Air Safety Support International is the link.

Good Luck !!