Insurance - could I be held liable?

[CirrusF]

Hello,

I've been asked to convoy a light twin from UK to Africa. The buyer is arranging the insurance. He rang me and asked how many hours I had on the particular light twin. I replied truthfuly that I had never flown that particular model (but have several thousand hours on other light twins). He then said, "oh, but we'll have to put ten hours or down on it, otherwise we won't be able to get the insurance". I told him that I wouldn't accept that, and that he would have to tell the truth to the insurer. We argued a bit, then he eventually appeared to accept my argument.

However, I am concerned that he might have still pretended to the Insurer that I have previously flown the type, and is merely pretending to accept my argument.

If this is the case, will the insurance be invalid, and worse could I be held personally liable? Unfortunately I will not be able to check the terms and conditions until I get to the UK.

[pilotbear]

Any misleading information given to an insurer is breach of contract and they will not pay out. Also, you could be liable to criminal proceedings. It is not worth the risk. If the guy is willing to do that, can you rely on him to pay you? Stand by you if there is an incident? He may say that you told him that you had time on the aircraft.
Have you ever flown in Africa? it is very different to Europe and you need the correct landing and overflight permits. Depending where you are going you may need a Visa and Arabic translation in your passport.

[weido_salt]

Correct. Insurance companies are not known for paying out unless they have too.

I fear the insurance companies and their ability to wreak havoc with your financial status, in the event of a claim, more than I fear the authorities in most respects. They have a lot of power and almost limitless funds available to investigate should they feel the need arise.

My advise would be to get in contact with the insurance company to see all is in order. Having said that the moment you inform them of your concerns the premiums will probably increase, for the owner!

[Miles Magister]

CF,

I beleive that if you have documented evidence of what you told the owner and he declares differently you will be covered in law and not liable to the insurance company. However the aircraft and you will not be insured. You will be the captain of the aircraft and it is you who are legally responsible that the aircraft you are flying is legally compliant for the airspace in which you are operating.

I advise my corporate clients to take insurance through Hayward Aviation as their policy includes pilot liability protection, which you will not find elsewhere.

Take care and never trust anyone in this type of operation, , there are good guys out there but check for yourself and make sure you are flying happy and safe.

MM

[Pace]

I've been asked to convoy a light twin from UK to Africa. The buyer is arranging the insurance. He rang me and asked how many hours I had on the particular light twin. I replied truthfuly that I had never flown that particular model (but have several thousand hours on other light twins

As you have several thousand hours on many light twins as long as this one is not very different the insurance company should accept those hours without much loading on the aircraft.
In that case a thorough checkout on the aircraft should suffice.

What twin is it and what have you flown?

Pace

[AircraftOperations]

Is there no chance of gaining 10 hours on the aircraft before the flight, or even on another aircraft of the same model to validate the insurance?

[CirrusF]

Just to follow up on this, I insisted that the new owner send me an attestation of the insurance. I immediately rang the insurance and found that it is only valid if I have 20 hours on the type, which is what they had been told.....

[south coast]

The plot thickens....so how did your next conversation with the owner go?

[CirrusF]

I just sent them a fax saying that I could not undertake the flight as I did not have the 20 hours on type required by the insurance. The new owner immediately rang and asked who had told me that I needed 20 hours on type - I told him that the insurance themselves had confirmed this to me, and that they had been told that I had the necessary experience. There followed a short pause, then a promise to "call me back". Have heard nothing more as yet...

[south coast]

Good for you.

The one thing which is strange is, the owner must know that by not being honest with the insurance company he would potentially compromise any possible claim, then why bother paying for the insurance in the first place?

[hawker750]

Because the owner would probably say that the pilot told him he had 20 hours on type and the owner had probably taken out "breach of warranty cover" that would pay him in the event of a claim. The inderwriters would then sue the pilot. The winner would be who had the the most expensive lawer (the pilot or the underwriter)

[south coast]

Point taken, I am not well educated in the principles of owning a plane.

Would the insurance company not need proof of the hours, ie. photo copy of said pilots logbook, or a copy of his licence saying he is endorsed to fly that particular type?

Seems too easy for the owner to go down this route and then just use the excuse that, 'the pilot told me he had 20 hours on type' as his defence in the event of a claim?

[hawker750]

It is amazing what people will put at risk to save a few quid. I guess the owner was hoping was that by the time the aircraft reached the North African coast the pilot would have now got 20 hours on type! So the only "un-insured" bit would have been the first half.
Anyway I thought under JAR/EASA all light twins were now a class rating so an indivuadual type does not actually exist in licensing law

[south coast]

I believe you are correct, it would be a MEP class rating.

[1Bingo]

Don't mess with the insurance, it's break even at best and more likely that you will lose (it all if circumstances dictate).