Fuel saving techniques Hawker800XP
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel saving techniques Hawker800XP
Hi all,
Does anyone have any recommended techniques for saving fuel on Hawker 800XP.
We are very happy with ours but would like to cut down on our fuel bill.
We normally climb at about 280kts, cruise about M.76 and descend at vmo
Does anyone have any recommended techniques for saving fuel on Hawker 800XP.
We are very happy with ours but would like to cut down on our fuel bill.
We normally climb at about 280kts, cruise about M.76 and descend at vmo
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Home if not overnighting...
Age: 54
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO not much, I tried for several years and basically no other climb, descent profile will save fuel in the Hawkers.
The only things we could do to save some fuel was to:
- Step climb to optimum all the time (with ATC help)
- Slow down to mach . 72-74 in cruise.
- Reduce your fuel load for a lower TOW will help a lot to get you higher soon.
But those above are obvious of course. but no tricks that i could find.
The only things we could do to save some fuel was to:
- Step climb to optimum all the time (with ATC help)
- Slow down to mach . 72-74 in cruise.
- Reduce your fuel load for a lower TOW will help a lot to get you higher soon.
But those above are obvious of course. but no tricks that i could find.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eire/HK
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or 250 kts to .70 which is the "normal climb" in the book. .63 is the best rate of climb and then use the book for long range cruise settings. As was said above, "the book knows best".
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: here and there, mostly there...
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tip
Hi there smiley,
If you enter the aircraft via the main entrance, the cockpit is to the left!
Yes yes I know, but I couldn't resist OK!
N.
P.S. A real one: if you cant dim the reading lights above your head, try the rocker switch behind the FO seat. That one caught me once. Same reading lights will be on when you swith on the entrance light, but when the rocker switch is in the up-position they will not extingish, and will not be dimmable when you switch off the entrance lights.
If you enter the aircraft via the main entrance, the cockpit is to the left!
Yes yes I know, but I couldn't resist OK!
N.
P.S. A real one: if you cant dim the reading lights above your head, try the rocker switch behind the FO seat. That one caught me once. Same reading lights will be on when you swith on the entrance light, but when the rocker switch is in the up-position they will not extingish, and will not be dimmable when you switch off the entrance lights.
Smiley,
It may be stating the obvious but with all the talk above about varying the cruise speed do not forget your support+ payments. If you reduce your criuse speed then your flight hours and consequently your support+ payments will increase.
forgive me if you already have this calculated.
Regards
MM
It may be stating the obvious but with all the talk above about varying the cruise speed do not forget your support+ payments. If you reduce your criuse speed then your flight hours and consequently your support+ payments will increase.
forgive me if you already have this calculated.
Regards
MM
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Optimum Level For Weight
Have any Collins Pro Line drivers had any experience with an "Unable cruise alt" msg on their FMS.
I can't seem to make sense of the Flight Manual, Weight V's Height tables compared to what the FMS is saying.
Is the Buffet boundary chart considered by the FMS.
Any ideas appreciated.
I can't seem to make sense of the Flight Manual, Weight V's Height tables compared to what the FMS is saying.
Is the Buffet boundary chart considered by the FMS.
Any ideas appreciated.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA (PA)
Age: 48
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you reduce your criuse speed then your flight hours and consequently your support+ payments will increase.
Mach 0.76 = 501 mph
Mach 0.70 = 462 mph
Difference = 39 mph
2 hours at cruise: about 10 min slower
I don't have the DOC's for a 850xp, but used the above calculations on other light and heavy aircraft (Beechjet 400a and Falcon 900B) to get the extremes:
You need to achieve in excess of 125-180 pounds per hour less fuel burn at Mach .70 than at .76 to compensate for the higher operating cost.
(Falcon 900B: 180 pph; Beechjet 400a: 125 pph - I was using $65 Labor rate, actual MX plan costs)
Disclaimer: certainly there is room for error - running for cover
...yes, I was bored.
Unusable FL
TKS,
This message appears in all PL21 aircraft frome the Hawker to Citations to King Airs and can be at medium levels as well as high levels. Could it be the flight planned route entered has a leg on the wrong semi-circular or a leg which is not allowed at that height in that direcection on that airway?
MM
This message appears in all PL21 aircraft frome the Hawker to Citations to King Airs and can be at medium levels as well as high levels. Could it be the flight planned route entered has a leg on the wrong semi-circular or a leg which is not allowed at that height in that direcection on that airway?
MM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Middle East
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a pop quiz for the hawker operators.
You select gear down and it sounds like it is down and locked but you have no main gear indication on the back up lights.
In other words, prove the gear is down and locked by using the horn warning system.
name 4 configurations you can have that will confirm to you by the warning horn system that the gear is down and locked?
You select gear down and it sounds like it is down and locked but you have no main gear indication on the back up lights.
In other words, prove the gear is down and locked by using the horn warning system.
name 4 configurations you can have that will confirm to you by the warning horn system that the gear is down and locked?
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: here and there, mostly there...
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Unable cruise alt"
aeroncaman is correct, if you change cruise level on the perf init page to a lower altitude where you can reach the cruise speed inserted on the vnav page/cruise then the message will disappear.
Of course you can change the cruise speed to a lower setting as well.
The message does not mean that you cant safely fly at the altitude put in the perf init page, but you will probably not reach the speed as selected on the vnav page/cruise.
N
Of course you can change the cruise speed to a lower setting as well.
The message does not mean that you cant safely fly at the altitude put in the perf init page, but you will probably not reach the speed as selected on the vnav page/cruise.
N
Last edited by natops; 21st Jan 2009 at 11:46.
medriver2008,
I can think of three to use while airbourne to confirm the gear is down and locked.
1/ Power above 60-70% N1 with the airbrakes extended(obviously use flap 0 to check this one), horn wll sound with gear down & locked
2/ Power below 60-70% N1 and airspeed below 150kts(watch the AoA if you don't have the flaps out), horn will sound without gear down & locked
3/ Flaps extended to 25 or 45 degrees, horn will sound without gear down & locked
Another for on the ground
4/ Start power switch selected "on" with gear down and locked but gear lever selected up
Seaeagle109
" A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus(Old Greek guy)
I can think of three to use while airbourne to confirm the gear is down and locked.
1/ Power above 60-70% N1 with the airbrakes extended(obviously use flap 0 to check this one), horn wll sound with gear down & locked
2/ Power below 60-70% N1 and airspeed below 150kts(watch the AoA if you don't have the flaps out), horn will sound without gear down & locked
3/ Flaps extended to 25 or 45 degrees, horn will sound without gear down & locked
Another for on the ground
4/ Start power switch selected "on" with gear down and locked but gear lever selected up
Seaeagle109
" A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus(Old Greek guy)
Last edited by Seaeagle109; 20th Jan 2009 at 11:30.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Age: 75
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuel Savings on Hawkers:
1/ If you are using long range/ventral fuel tank, leave it in there for as long as possible to get aft C og G. Saves fuel
2/ The trim inputs from the A/P are not great. Ensure that the trim indecese are 100% flush by manually trimming if necessary.
3/ In the cruise select your mach number and let speed settle, then pull back throttles inch by inch untill speed just starts to decay. Careful use of this technique can save 50-70 lbs/hr with no speed loss!
4/ Do not tanker unless fuel price more than 5%/ hour of flight cheaper
5/ Buy fuel from World Fuel Service at Gatwick to save $$$$$
Have got 7 hours airborne from our 800 and landed with 1000 lbs using above techniques.
Happy long range flying!
1/ If you are using long range/ventral fuel tank, leave it in there for as long as possible to get aft C og G. Saves fuel
2/ The trim inputs from the A/P are not great. Ensure that the trim indecese are 100% flush by manually trimming if necessary.
3/ In the cruise select your mach number and let speed settle, then pull back throttles inch by inch untill speed just starts to decay. Careful use of this technique can save 50-70 lbs/hr with no speed loss!
4/ Do not tanker unless fuel price more than 5%/ hour of flight cheaper
5/ Buy fuel from World Fuel Service at Gatwick to save $$$$$
Have got 7 hours airborne from our 800 and landed with 1000 lbs using above techniques.
Happy long range flying!
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hawker 750 said:
'1/ If you are using long range/ventral fuel tank, leave it in there for as long as possible to get aft C og G. Saves fuel'
The problem with this is if you delay the transfer, and you then have a problem with transfering fuel you will be at even more aft CG than you would if you did it after making just enough space for the ventral fuel in the wings. I flew with some one who did this on a ferry flight. When he went to the loo I had a big control problem (Aft CG). I started transferiing immediately and all was ok after that.
If the transfer doesn't work it is a diversion issue before it gets too aft loaded. Moving pax and baggage is then necessary.
On the original point, unless you trying to stretch out the range of the a/c, reducing flight time must be the priority. I depends how much you pay for the fuel but saving time on the a/c was always the priority on a bizjet. Saving fuel was more a priority for the airlines. DOC's are different because they are utilised far more.
If you can fly at FL400 with a similar TAS at FL380 (reduced headwind may help too) then you can save fuel without adding time.
On a stretched out 6hr trip at long range cruise, you can save around 30min of flight time if you can techstop halfway and cruise at high speed. (15-20 min on the ground of course). 30min must be worth around £600? We don't like arriving on fumes anyway unless all options are open, so stretching it out can be stressfull.
Climb at 250/0.7 and descend late ie set VNAV to 3000fpm is good for long range.
'1/ If you are using long range/ventral fuel tank, leave it in there for as long as possible to get aft C og G. Saves fuel'
The problem with this is if you delay the transfer, and you then have a problem with transfering fuel you will be at even more aft CG than you would if you did it after making just enough space for the ventral fuel in the wings. I flew with some one who did this on a ferry flight. When he went to the loo I had a big control problem (Aft CG). I started transferiing immediately and all was ok after that.
If the transfer doesn't work it is a diversion issue before it gets too aft loaded. Moving pax and baggage is then necessary.
On the original point, unless you trying to stretch out the range of the a/c, reducing flight time must be the priority. I depends how much you pay for the fuel but saving time on the a/c was always the priority on a bizjet. Saving fuel was more a priority for the airlines. DOC's are different because they are utilised far more.
If you can fly at FL400 with a similar TAS at FL380 (reduced headwind may help too) then you can save fuel without adding time.
On a stretched out 6hr trip at long range cruise, you can save around 30min of flight time if you can techstop halfway and cruise at high speed. (15-20 min on the ground of course). 30min must be worth around £600? We don't like arriving on fumes anyway unless all options are open, so stretching it out can be stressfull.
Climb at 250/0.7 and descend late ie set VNAV to 3000fpm is good for long range.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Location: Location:
Age: 53
Posts: 1,110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Climb at 250/0.7 and descend late ie set VNAV to 3000fpm is good for long range.
descending at the same rate and point as the airliners saves fuel and prevents vectoring/time. Good one for this is AGP 3.7deg means thust levers closed at around 95-100miles/F410 and not touched again until the FAF! - good for 250-300lbs on my aircraft not hawker but similar mid size
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that, GS. It's interesting to hear what the bus drivers do. Most of us use 3* ht, ie from FL400, 120nm, around 3 deg. 3.7deg is around 2.5*ht, so from FL400, 100nm. Sounds good.