NetJets 2009 danger ahead ?
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BH Clarification
Smallfry. Just to clarify BH prefer to wholly own companies, and also have limited share holdings in other companies. Coke, Amex etc... They have a very small head office team of around 15-20 people, and the companies are then left to run themselves. One of the considerable benefits of being a BH company is access to cash (which is kept flowing in part by the access to the free float from their reinsurance businesses), and access to a blockbuster credit rating (AAA, one of only very few left in the world).
The annual report is available online and confirms the business's they own (inc. NJ and FSI) However they have never split out the financials for NJ or NJE, prefering to keep them as part of aviation services!
Hope this helps
DJ101
The annual report is available online and confirms the business's they own (inc. NJ and FSI) However they have never split out the financials for NJ or NJE, prefering to keep them as part of aviation services!
Hope this helps
DJ101
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Berkshire Hathaway is a US corporation.
NTA is a European airline.
A European airline must be majority owned and controlled by Europeans.
As such, Berkshire Hathaway can neither majority own NTA, nor control it.
So tell me, given all the musical chairs of managers from the US and fron London in the recent years, who on earth is this European that majority owns and controls NTA?
Has anyone ever seen or heard of him or her?
Any Press announcements whatsoever?
I would be interested from those on the inside of NTA - who do they think they all work for?
NTA is a European airline.
A European airline must be majority owned and controlled by Europeans.
As such, Berkshire Hathaway can neither majority own NTA, nor control it.
So tell me, given all the musical chairs of managers from the US and fron London in the recent years, who on earth is this European that majority owns and controls NTA?
Has anyone ever seen or heard of him or her?
Any Press announcements whatsoever?
I would be interested from those on the inside of NTA - who do they think they all work for?
Join Date: Aug 2000
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no, the main reason NJE is based in portugal, is that portugal (at the time NJ was looking for a european base), was willing to accept a controlling US ownership.
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Vince Santulli's role in NTA?
Blake 7 & Green Cactus.
Is Vince Santulli, ( Richard's brother), a Portuguese resident?
If that is true, is his presence & participation to NTA part of the validation of the company's european ownership? (ie, the owner can be a US national as long as resident in Portugal?
any info?
Is Vince Santulli, ( Richard's brother), a Portuguese resident?
If that is true, is his presence & participation to NTA part of the validation of the company's european ownership? (ie, the owner can be a US national as long as resident in Portugal?
any info?
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As it was explained to me at that time, NJ looked at several european countries to base their european operation. All, except for one, required the controlling interest to be within their country. Only Portugal accepted a foreign controlling interest.....
Portugal was not the preferred location (not in the center of the market) but was the only one willing to accept NJ's conditions.
GC
Portugal was not the preferred location (not in the center of the market) but was the only one willing to accept NJ's conditions.
GC
Last edited by Green Cactus; 3rd Jan 2009 at 12:49. Reason: spelling
The original partner for NJE was meant to be Zimex in Zurich which makes more sense in location and market access but maybe not in cost advantage.
Go back a long way in time and look at those that were involved in the setup on both sides of the pond and there are several ex-Zimex people hummm funny that.
Cant say exactly why it fell through but Zimex had its issues as well hence now the maintenance, hangar and FBO are all gone, but the core operation is still about and doing well.
Go back a long way in time and look at those that were involved in the setup on both sides of the pond and there are several ex-Zimex people hummm funny that.
Cant say exactly why it fell through but Zimex had its issues as well hence now the maintenance, hangar and FBO are all gone, but the core operation is still about and doing well.
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Switzerland would have made it very complicated, a european union country is essential to their operating model.
Zimex might have been involved but I doubt they were considered for very long. Maybe a Zimex setup outside of Switzerland with an associated AOC....
Not very difficult to get. But Zimex Zurich, don't think so.
NJ was looking for an existing AOC, so Zimex creating one for NJE (while not that complicated) was not what they were looking for.
We were involved with them (NJ) at the time as well. We even tried resolving the controlling interest requirement. But neither side (country - NJ) was willing to move, this resulted in NJE being based in Portugal.
Zimex might have been involved but I doubt they were considered for very long. Maybe a Zimex setup outside of Switzerland with an associated AOC....
Not very difficult to get. But Zimex Zurich, don't think so.
NJ was looking for an existing AOC, so Zimex creating one for NJE (while not that complicated) was not what they were looking for.
We were involved with them (NJ) at the time as well. We even tried resolving the controlling interest requirement. But neither side (country - NJ) was willing to move, this resulted in NJE being based in Portugal.
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Not forgetting Portugal has a very low average wage, about 500 euros a month meaning cheap manpower. Additionally, Portugal has very poor employment rights allowing NetJets to rule by fear and fire people whenever they want, whichh the do. Although, they a too clever to directly fire them, they just have everyone on 7 month fixed term contracts which they dont renew.
What NetJets management failed to realise is that as Portugal only has 3 proper airports and a small air force so there is not that many aviation professionals to hire. So they hire people with zero aviation experience, offer little or no training and pay the peanuts and hope it all works. It does not.
So they tried setting up there own NetJets Academy to provide trained people for the office. Sadly, this has also not worked and despite the financial investment from the company into these individual they have already sacked one of the graduates with 6-7 more to follow. Sorry, not sacked I hate these legal terms, End of Fixed Term Contract. Meaning they no longer have a job which is obviously a lot different to being sacked to these individuals who have given a lot of time and effort to the company.
On top of that NetJets Europe have been told by big brother that they have too many staff and will not be given a bigger budget for more and have to make cuts. This was before the economic down turn so things have probably got worse.
So while Netjets Europe certainly has some finanial power, the Lisbon HQ is in a mess. The lack of aviaiton professionals, fear and blame culture and inefficient systems mean it will struggle and it only has itself to blame. In short, they just dont get it.
What NetJets management failed to realise is that as Portugal only has 3 proper airports and a small air force so there is not that many aviation professionals to hire. So they hire people with zero aviation experience, offer little or no training and pay the peanuts and hope it all works. It does not.
So they tried setting up there own NetJets Academy to provide trained people for the office. Sadly, this has also not worked and despite the financial investment from the company into these individual they have already sacked one of the graduates with 6-7 more to follow. Sorry, not sacked I hate these legal terms, End of Fixed Term Contract. Meaning they no longer have a job which is obviously a lot different to being sacked to these individuals who have given a lot of time and effort to the company.
On top of that NetJets Europe have been told by big brother that they have too many staff and will not be given a bigger budget for more and have to make cuts. This was before the economic down turn so things have probably got worse.
So while Netjets Europe certainly has some finanial power, the Lisbon HQ is in a mess. The lack of aviaiton professionals, fear and blame culture and inefficient systems mean it will struggle and it only has itself to blame. In short, they just dont get it.
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Hi Flake
Must be a different company than the one I work for.... Things in LIS have improved drastically since DM his departure.... with him the fear system left the building.. The amount of training that the company spends is huge and because of the location we are still able to get top expats and top locals to join.
Systems were crap in the past but that is also an area where lots of cash do wonders
Must be a different company than the one I work for.... Things in LIS have improved drastically since DM his departure.... with him the fear system left the building.. The amount of training that the company spends is huge and because of the location we are still able to get top expats and top locals to join.
Systems were crap in the past but that is also an area where lots of cash do wonders
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No RYR for me
"..............we are still able to get top expats and top locals to join."
This sounds to me like typical NJ B/S to me.
What is your "yard stick?" Are you at the top? What is a top pilot?
Please enlighten us.
"..............we are still able to get top expats and top locals to join."
This sounds to me like typical NJ B/S to me.
What is your "yard stick?" Are you at the top? What is a top pilot?
Please enlighten us.
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"conceive a business so that it can be run by idiots because one day it will be"
Another prophecy from Warren Buffet, but does the attitude behind the words create the reality?
Is this the American way of viewing enterprise/military hierarchy as a one man show run by compliant operators chosen for obedience above competance?
Does NTA reward compliance & punish individual expression, critism & creativity?
There are sure some great people at NTA as there are at NJA.
Is it true that NTA attracts top people? If so....
How many applications for the Citation Assistant Fleet Manager Job?
Who wanted the Cabin Crew Manager job? Then...
How come NTA held interviews in the UK for external candidatures?
How come NTA has been recruiting Pilots & training Cadets until end nov?
Sure plenty has changed since DM left, they rebranded, came onshore & created participative mngmt. Does that mean that the foundation of Buffet/ Santulli method has changed?
Is this the American way of viewing enterprise/military hierarchy as a one man show run by compliant operators chosen for obedience above competance?
Does NTA reward compliance & punish individual expression, critism & creativity?
There are sure some great people at NTA as there are at NJA.
Is it true that NTA attracts top people? If so....
How many applications for the Citation Assistant Fleet Manager Job?
Who wanted the Cabin Crew Manager job? Then...
How come NTA held interviews in the UK for external candidatures?
How come NTA has been recruiting Pilots & training Cadets until end nov?
Sure plenty has changed since DM left, they rebranded, came onshore & created participative mngmt. Does that mean that the foundation of Buffet/ Santulli method has changed?
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I think you may be confusing me for some one else. 
If you have a door you must be a management type which explains you original post. Get out of your office and talk to the people on the shop floor and you will see nothing has really changed since DM left. There are lots of mumbo jumbo emails flying around the place, there a a few good people trying to make a change but nothing is really changing. In some areas things are significantly worse thanks to a certain person only promoting his mates and those who are not a threat to him.
In short if you are not aware of the many problems and issues in the office then you must be one of the causes.
If you have a door you must be a management type which explains you original post. Get out of your office and talk to the people on the shop floor and you will see nothing has really changed since DM left. There are lots of mumbo jumbo emails flying around the place, there a a few good people trying to make a change but nothing is really changing. In some areas things are significantly worse thanks to a certain person only promoting his mates and those who are not a threat to him.
In short if you are not aware of the many problems and issues in the office then you must be one of the causes.
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@Joe
It means that we have had the luxury (specially since the new pay package) to be really selective crew wise on who we hired. Or should I say who we did not hire... Have seen a lot of excellent resumes pass by but a lot of them did not live up to what we wanted in the sim.. So for every person hired there is a number of people not hired and disgruntled who are flying happily (and safely) at other operators. Does that means what we do is BS? Does that mean the other person is better? Does that mean we are better? I think it only means we are happy with the person hired and we feel they are top talent and fit in with what we do.
It means that we have had the luxury (specially since the new pay package) to be really selective crew wise on who we hired. Or should I say who we did not hire... Have seen a lot of excellent resumes pass by but a lot of them did not live up to what we wanted in the sim.. So for every person hired there is a number of people not hired and disgruntled who are flying happily (and safely) at other operators. Does that means what we do is BS? Does that mean the other person is better? Does that mean we are better? I think it only means we are happy with the person hired and we feel they are top talent and fit in with what we do.
