Visa needed?
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Visa needed?
Does anybody know for definite if a person can go to the states for a type rating on the Visa Waiver scheme? It does state for business or pleasure!! Also I have heard that it's possible if the duration of your stay is less than a month. I have a rating coming up at short notice and I can't risk a delay at the US embassy. Anyone know if they have a fast track system for employed pilots?
Thanks a lot in advance
Bearing!!
Thanks a lot in advance
Bearing!!
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Yes you can do the rating in the states without having a visa IF you travel under the visa waiver program. The customs will give you a stamp in your passport which is valid for 90 days. Make sure you have all documents inclusive the documents of your TRTO because the customs may ask for it.
Good luck
Good luck
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Hi Brie,
Many thanks for the response. I have heard so many conflicting stories. I am TSA cleared and I have all the relevant documentation. Have you done this recently?
Cheers
Bearing!
Many thanks for the response. I have heard so many conflicting stories. I am TSA cleared and I have all the relevant documentation. Have you done this recently?
Cheers
Bearing!
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Yes i did. Went in nov for recurrent to dallas.
One important remark: in the airplane you have to in fill 2 documents ofwhich one green document. At the customs you have to give both documents and you get the green document back with a stamp on it. Make sure you don't loose it, you'll need it on the way back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you loose it, you can be in deep ****, i've heard.
Anyway godd luck
One important remark: in the airplane you have to in fill 2 documents ofwhich one green document. At the customs you have to give both documents and you get the green document back with a stamp on it. Make sure you don't loose it, you'll need it on the way back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you loose it, you can be in deep ****, i've heard.
Anyway godd luck
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YES YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did my intitial training in January 2008. And my collegue and i we did it on the visa waiver program. We stayed there for about 3 weeks.
SO yes you can!!!!!
I did my intitial training in January 2008. And my collegue and i we did it on the visa waiver program. We stayed there for about 3 weeks.
SO yes you can!!!!!
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You can, if the TSA stuff is sorted (has nothing to do with how you may enter the country).
Your TRTO should provide you with all the required info. I´m just done with a refresher waiting for my return flight. You´ll get the green slip for the visa waiver and a white for customs. The green one has a detachable part that goes into your passport and is required to leave. The white stays with customs.
Have fun!
Your TRTO should provide you with all the required info. I´m just done with a refresher waiting for my return flight. You´ll get the green slip for the visa waiver and a white for customs. The green one has a detachable part that goes into your passport and is required to leave. The white stays with customs.
Have fun!
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New Visa Waiver Requirement
International travelers who are seeking to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program are now subject to enhanced security requirements. All eligible travelers who wish to travel under the Visa Waiver Program must apply for authorization using the following process:
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.h...9-793C79DC7F6D
More info: U.S. Customs and Border Protection - Travel
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.h...9-793C79DC7F6D
More info: U.S. Customs and Border Protection - Travel
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Thanks everyone for the Info.
What happened to Mutts Post!!!! I thought it was the case but just wanted to be sure. I tried phoning the US embassy yesterday and was told that the call would cost £1.20 per min and got put on hold with the estimated time to be 15 minutes..... what a rip off.
If I'm not mistaken the ESTA thing for the Visa Waiver Program, doesn't start until the 12th Jan.
Thanks Again
What happened to Mutts Post!!!! I thought it was the case but just wanted to be sure. I tried phoning the US embassy yesterday and was told that the call would cost £1.20 per min and got put on hold with the estimated time to be 15 minutes..... what a rip off.
If I'm not mistaken the ESTA thing for the Visa Waiver Program, doesn't start until the 12th Jan.
Thanks Again
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Yep, and when you get trough, you´ll actually talk to a callcenter in Dublin, not the embassy. It took me once 86 USD to find out that they can`t give me the information sought. The guy was a really helpful romanian student, still he did not know anything out of the envelope of holiday travel... Let it have your training provider sorted.
The following, although not strictly on thread may be useful.
Nevertheless, on our next visit, I think I'll fill in the I-94W until demonstrated as no longer required.
DHS: Frequently Asked Questions: Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA)
Embassy of the U.S. London: DHS (Immigration)
Q: If people have received ESTA approval, do they also need to fill out an I-94W?
A: DHS has been coordinating with commercial air and vessel carriers on the development and implementation of messaging capabilities for passenger data transmissions that will enable DHS to provide the carriers with messages pertaining to a passenger's boarding status. A prospective VWP traveler’s ESTA status is a component of a passenger’s boarding status that has been introduced into the plans for implementing messaging capabilities between DHS and the carriers. The implementation of the ESTA program will allow DHS to eventually eliminate the requirement that VWP travelers complete an I-94W prior to being admitted to the United States.
After Jan. 12, 2009, a VWP traveler with a valid ESTA will not be required to complete the paper Form I-94W when arriving on a carrier that is capable of receiving and validating messages pertaining to the traveler’s ESTA status as part of the traveler’s boarding status. Until ESTA is mandatory, however, all VWP travelers applying for admission at a U.S. port of entry, including those VWP travelers who possess a voluntary ESTA authorization, must still present the Form I-94W to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
Nevertheless, on our next visit, I think I'll fill in the I-94W until demonstrated as no longer required.
DHS: Frequently Asked Questions: Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA)
Embassy of the U.S. London: DHS (Immigration)
Q: If people have received ESTA approval, do they also need to fill out an I-94W?
A: DHS has been coordinating with commercial air and vessel carriers on the development and implementation of messaging capabilities for passenger data transmissions that will enable DHS to provide the carriers with messages pertaining to a passenger's boarding status. A prospective VWP traveler’s ESTA status is a component of a passenger’s boarding status that has been introduced into the plans for implementing messaging capabilities between DHS and the carriers. The implementation of the ESTA program will allow DHS to eventually eliminate the requirement that VWP travelers complete an I-94W prior to being admitted to the United States.
After Jan. 12, 2009, a VWP traveler with a valid ESTA will not be required to complete the paper Form I-94W when arriving on a carrier that is capable of receiving and validating messages pertaining to the traveler’s ESTA status as part of the traveler’s boarding status. Until ESTA is mandatory, however, all VWP travelers applying for admission at a U.S. port of entry, including those VWP travelers who possess a voluntary ESTA authorization, must still present the Form I-94W to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
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Visa Waiver/
The TSA and FAA have made it very strict on these items, if you are a Non US passport holder you need to have TSA clearance for flight training to include the following IR/Commercial/ an additional rating.
Attempting to enter on a Visa Waiver program is not the correct way and you are taking a huge risk at border control.
In addition before any simulator training can take place or actual flight training the TSA training has to be approved, the only exemption to this is ground school.
The Above rules also apply for Resident Green Card Holders, and holders of H1B visa,s the only exemption is that your are a USA Citizen.
I hope that this helps.
Best Regards
Attempting to enter on a Visa Waiver program is not the correct way and you are taking a huge risk at border control.
In addition before any simulator training can take place or actual flight training the TSA training has to be approved, the only exemption to this is ground school.
The Above rules also apply for Resident Green Card Holders, and holders of H1B visa,s the only exemption is that your are a USA Citizen.
I hope that this helps.
Best Regards
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Rusty, I´ve entered the US for flight training in Mid 06, Jan 07, Jul07, Jan 08, and Dec 08 on the Visa waiver program. I always was asked and answered that I entered for flight training, either reccurent or initial and never had any troubles. I think you mix up the entry (for 90 days) opposed for say, a basic flight training that would take longer. The TSA approval is IMO totally independent to the entry procedure.
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US TSA etc.
The two previous replies are quite correct, the TSA approval is mandatory before flight training or simulator can be commenced. There is a TSA enrollment procedure where they want to know everything about you and more...then you have to get yourself fingerprinted at an accepted location etc etc....have a look on the TSA website. I went through all this a few weeks ago, it's quite tiresome but if you need help the TSA people are very helpful. The other thing is that from the 12th.Jan, in a couple of days in fact, there is a new immigration procedure supposedly coming into force, so best to check on that as well...good luck!
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I think Rusty's comment causes confusion...
TSA
The TSA has 4 CATEGORIES which classify you, the student seeking flight training:
Category 1 is for students who do not have a previous type rating of any kind on their FAA or foreign airman certificate. YOU NEED APPROVAL
Category 2 is for pilots who have a previous type rating (MTOW 12,500 or more), but are training in an aircraft they are not currently qualified in. YOU NEED APPROVAL
Category 3 is for pilots training in any aircraft with a MTOW of 12,500 lbs. or less. (Note: in many cases Category 3 is waived and no TSA application is required.). NO APPROVAL NEEDED
Category 4 is for pilots who are training in aircraft they are already qualified in, for example recurrent training. No fingerprints or application are required. Contact your learning center for this category. NO APPROVAL NEEDED
TSA
The TSA has 4 CATEGORIES which classify you, the student seeking flight training:
Category 1 is for students who do not have a previous type rating of any kind on their FAA or foreign airman certificate. YOU NEED APPROVAL
Category 2 is for pilots who have a previous type rating (MTOW 12,500 or more), but are training in an aircraft they are not currently qualified in. YOU NEED APPROVAL
Category 3 is for pilots training in any aircraft with a MTOW of 12,500 lbs. or less. (Note: in many cases Category 3 is waived and no TSA application is required.). NO APPROVAL NEEDED
Category 4 is for pilots who are training in aircraft they are already qualified in, for example recurrent training. No fingerprints or application are required. Contact your learning center for this category. NO APPROVAL NEEDED
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now, VISA
As far as the Visa Waiver is concerned, I just found a table from the ICE (US Immigration and Customs Enforcement) that explains:
"Nonimmigrants, Who Can Study?" (http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/...an%20Study.pdf)
Apparently "Visitors" CANNOT study except if the training is "merely avocational or recreational in nature"
I guess the Immigration Officer rather let's you go, then to find out how to bust your chops
I try to find out more... maybe somebody should call Flight Safety or CAE Simuflite and find out if all their foreign clients flying Jets/Helicopters merely for fun?
I stand to be corrected.
As far as the Visa Waiver is concerned, I just found a table from the ICE (US Immigration and Customs Enforcement) that explains:
"Nonimmigrants, Who Can Study?" (http://www.ice.gov/doclib/sevis/pdf/...an%20Study.pdf)
Apparently "Visitors" CANNOT study except if the training is "merely avocational or recreational in nature"
I guess the Immigration Officer rather let's you go, then to find out how to bust your chops
I try to find out more... maybe somebody should call Flight Safety or CAE Simuflite and find out if all their foreign clients flying Jets/Helicopters merely for fun?
I stand to be corrected.
Last edited by Phil77; 10th Jan 2009 at 21:48. Reason: Disclaimer
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I'm in the US now with FS and when I was asked at Border Patrol what I was doing here, I answered truthfully that I was flight training on a new type. They took my prints, stamped my passport and wished me a pleasant stay. They even joked that they assumed it wouldn't be all that pleasant considering the nature of my visit.
As long as you have your TSA in place and approved, and you are from an approved country for the VISA Waiver, there is not a problem. FS themselves have said that a visa is not required.
Stop speculating and get the facts. You need a visa if you are planning on flying in and out of the US for work or if you are undertaking initial flight training, which tends to last for a considerable length of time. There is a letter to FS from the Dept Of State which they will provide on request, which states that an employed pilot coming to the US for training that lasts at least a week but not more than a month, qualifies under the Visa Waiver scheme.
As long as you have your TSA in place and approved, and you are from an approved country for the VISA Waiver, there is not a problem. FS themselves have said that a visa is not required.
Stop speculating and get the facts. You need a visa if you are planning on flying in and out of the US for work or if you are undertaking initial flight training, which tends to last for a considerable length of time. There is a letter to FS from the Dept Of State which they will provide on request, which states that an employed pilot coming to the US for training that lasts at least a week but not more than a month, qualifies under the Visa Waiver scheme.
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You could hedge you bets when it comes to going.
ie Washington Dulles see's 100's of pilots through its doors going to sim sessions in the area in a week and don't bat an eye lid.
Or stage through Shannon and clear immigration before you step on the aircraft to cross the pond.
ie Washington Dulles see's 100's of pilots through its doors going to sim sessions in the area in a week and don't bat an eye lid.
Or stage through Shannon and clear immigration before you step on the aircraft to cross the pond.
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Visa Versus Waiver Program
Sorry for any confusion on this, however residing both sides of the Atlantic and having a friend whom works in CBT advised me that regardless of any training,
The Visa Waiver program (Green form filled out) is designed for visitors only, this type of Visa waiver is for people visiting the country in the purpose of vacation etc.
Regardless of what CBT officer reviews your passport on arrival its open to review etc.
The Correct method is to obtain a crew visa or a B1 B2 Visa.
Border control also want to see a return ticket if non resident.
All of these new rules are post 911, they want to know who is doing training and where etc.
I guess we all have to put up with this in post-911.
The Visa Waiver program (Green form filled out) is designed for visitors only, this type of Visa waiver is for people visiting the country in the purpose of vacation etc.
Regardless of what CBT officer reviews your passport on arrival its open to review etc.
The Correct method is to obtain a crew visa or a B1 B2 Visa.
Border control also want to see a return ticket if non resident.
All of these new rules are post 911, they want to know who is doing training and where etc.
I guess we all have to put up with this in post-911.