JAA and FAA License
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JAA and FAA License
Morning all,
I'm just curious as to how many dual licensed professional pilots there are out there, i.e. JAA and FAA, and have you found a greater demand for such or pretty much the same. Also did you get the FAA first and convert visa versa.
I have both as the company I work for is purely a management company and it is a pre-requisite for all pilots to have both as half the fleet is on the N Reg. I had a JAA first and then converted.
Cheers
US
I'm just curious as to how many dual licensed professional pilots there are out there, i.e. JAA and FAA, and have you found a greater demand for such or pretty much the same. Also did you get the FAA first and convert visa versa.
I have both as the company I work for is purely a management company and it is a pre-requisite for all pilots to have both as half the fleet is on the N Reg. I had a JAA first and then converted.
Cheers
US
Multi licences....
Started with an ICAO ATPL, Next FAA, Last JAA (not a conversion all 14 exams!)
Using the FAA professionally as that then carries over to several validations (GACA, VP-, etc) and the JAA is purely private now however I do keep my ratings valid on it which means a sim for the 737 with a couple mates and an opc/IR on the turboprop for the private stuff.
So in 17 years of professional flying.
5 different National ATPL's
4 validations for operating foreign reg aircraft based upon current licences
I am seeing that my work has moved toward FAA as its much simpler than JAA
Started with an ICAO ATPL, Next FAA, Last JAA (not a conversion all 14 exams!)
Using the FAA professionally as that then carries over to several validations (GACA, VP-, etc) and the JAA is purely private now however I do keep my ratings valid on it which means a sim for the 737 with a couple mates and an opc/IR on the turboprop for the private stuff.
So in 17 years of professional flying.
5 different National ATPL's
4 validations for operating foreign reg aircraft based upon current licences
I am seeing that my work has moved toward FAA as its much simpler than JAA
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Depends whether you want to do it in the US or not. I believe others here have info on training organisations nearer home.
Mine was done in the US on a PC. About a day spent answering the same questions over and over then a multiple-guess exam that was straightforward and a double sim check at the end of a type rating course. Easy stuff really.
Mine was done in the US on a PC. About a day spent answering the same questions over and over then a multiple-guess exam that was straightforward and a double sim check at the end of a type rating course. Easy stuff really.
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FAA and JAA ATPL,
Did my national ATPL many moons ago and automatically converted it into a JAA one when the rules changed.
For the FAA licence, I "studied" the red gleim book ( the one with all the questions) and took the written exam in europe. The practical check was done during a sim check for a JAA initial in the USA.
Never use the FAA licence though, it's a nice to have thing I guess...
Cheers,
A
Did my national ATPL many moons ago and automatically converted it into a JAA one when the rules changed.
For the FAA licence, I "studied" the red gleim book ( the one with all the questions) and took the written exam in europe. The practical check was done during a sim check for a JAA initial in the USA.
Never use the FAA licence though, it's a nice to have thing I guess...
Cheers,
A
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I spent the first couple of working years with just a JAA ticket and in my opinion I missed out on a lot of flying on King Airs, PC-12s and Cheyenne's because I didn't have an FAA license. I might stress at this point.... that was before the rubbish situation we are in now. I just don't want loads of wannabes rushing out spending loads of dosh, to get an FAA ticket thinking there is loads of work out there because there isn't!!!!
In answer to Condors Question:
It can now all be done in the UK although I converted a CPL/IR I'm guessing its pretty much the same. You need to:
1. Get TSA Clearance
2. Get License Verification
3. Get Fingerprinted at Flight Safety Farnborough
4. Get an FAA Class 1 Medical.
5. Get the ATA prepware CD ATP.
I studied the CPL/IR ones and got over 90% in both written s although you will only have to do one.
6. Take the written at Flight Safety Farnborough.
7. Contact a guy called Tom Houghston who is (and I checked with New York) the only certified examiner for Europe and North Africa. He will do a flight test for you. If you have a reccurency check coming up, that can also act as an ATP check ride if you make arrangements to haver an FAA examiner present.
The whole thing is not a big deal, just a pain.
Hope this helps if you need anymore info let me know
Cheers
US
In answer to Condors Question:
It can now all be done in the UK although I converted a CPL/IR I'm guessing its pretty much the same. You need to:
1. Get TSA Clearance
2. Get License Verification
3. Get Fingerprinted at Flight Safety Farnborough
4. Get an FAA Class 1 Medical.
5. Get the ATA prepware CD ATP.
I studied the CPL/IR ones and got over 90% in both written s although you will only have to do one.
6. Take the written at Flight Safety Farnborough.
7. Contact a guy called Tom Houghston who is (and I checked with New York) the only certified examiner for Europe and North Africa. He will do a flight test for you. If you have a reccurency check coming up, that can also act as an ATP check ride if you make arrangements to haver an FAA examiner present.
The whole thing is not a big deal, just a pain.
Hope this helps if you need anymore info let me know
Cheers
US
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I started flying in the US, collecting flying hours as a CFI. This was tough but good and I found the learning environment to be excellent over there. I made every effort necessary to maintain currency of my FAA ATP and CFI, even after having obtained European licenses (ATPL) and having added some of my type ratings to it.
So far, it hasn't paid off. Nobody hired me just because I had FAA licenses.
Yes, there are some managed airplanes out there where an an FAA pilots license is a requirement, but they won't hire just because of that. If you're the right person for the job, they will provide with whatever is necessary in order to obtain the right license.
Bottom line? I worked hard to get all these qualifications and I will keep them alive as long as I can. But: don't waste your money!
So far, it hasn't paid off. Nobody hired me just because I had FAA licenses.
Yes, there are some managed airplanes out there where an an FAA pilots license is a requirement, but they won't hire just because of that. If you're the right person for the job, they will provide with whatever is necessary in order to obtain the right license.
Bottom line? I worked hard to get all these qualifications and I will keep them alive as long as I can. But: don't waste your money!
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Triple licenced
I hold FAA and JAA ATP, with a ME ATP as well.
Typed and current on all three.
In general more work will come to JAA then FAA to almost all the world except ME, FE, and USA.
Austria for example, a big corporate jet centre, eaccepted a FAA for a validation, this has now changed, but it demonstrates the facility.
The Bermudans accept FAA and JAA to issue validations, with the associated paperwork.
So in summary JAA is IMHO, better.
glf
Typed and current on all three.
In general more work will come to JAA then FAA to almost all the world except ME, FE, and USA.
Austria for example, a big corporate jet centre, eaccepted a FAA for a validation, this has now changed, but it demonstrates the facility.
The Bermudans accept FAA and JAA to issue validations, with the associated paperwork.
So in summary JAA is IMHO, better.
glf
I have both FAA and JAA licences, I've never used the JAA one though, i've always flown on FAA or validation of FAA. Its aggro and expensive keeping the JAA valid, but unfortunately essential as who knows what the future holds....
Perhaps what the future holds...?
Isle of Man lures U.S. operators with promised tax incentives
By Charles Alcock & Ian Sheppard
June 1, 2008
Taxes
The new Isle of Man aircraft registry could be a possible safe haven for N-registered business aircraft based in Europe. European civil aviation authorities, such as those of France and the UK, have indicated that they are unwilling to tolerate the situation in which aircraft that spend most of their time in Europe remain on the U.S. registry for a variety of reasons, including operators’ desire to avoid making costly technical modifications.
According to Douglas Aviation Services, which handles the affairs of companies and individuals registering aircraft in the Isle of Man, European aviation officials have indicated that they view the offshore registry as an acceptable alternative. Aircraft registration experts have told AIN privately that this could be a face-saving opportunity for European aviation authorities, which they say do not have strong legal grounds to force N-registered aircraft onto their registries. In fact, the Isle of Man is also seeking to attract aircraft currently registered in other European countries, as well as in Asia and the Middle East.
The Isle of Man already has an established shipping registry that is the third largest in the world. It specializes in high-value super-yachts and in this respect complements the role of the new aircraft registry.
As a precursor to opening its aircraft registry in May 2007, the Isle of Man appointed its first Director of Civil Aviation to establish a regulatory framework that draws heavily on the structure and standards of the UK Civil Aviation Authority. The job went to former CAA official and corporate pilot Brian Johnson. His team is part of the Isle of Man’s Department of Trade and Industry.
However, significantly for issues such as taxation and employment law, the Isle of Man is not part of the 27-state European Union. It is a self-governing British Crown Dependency located in the Irish Sea between the UK and Ireland.
“The Isle of Man registry allows companies and individuals to have European-based aircraft without having European tax [exposure],” explained Douglas Aviation Services chief executive Niall McNamara.
The main tax benefits of registration in the Isle of Man are its zero-ratings for corporation, capital gains and inheritance tax. The island also doesn’t charge insurance premium tax (currently 5 percent in the UK). Depending on an aircraft owner’s tax domicile, the Isle of Man registration can reduce or eliminate any exposure to value-added tax on aircraft purchases.
One other possible tax issue is the trend for countries such as the UK to more aggressively seek to tax the income and assets of people who live in the country
but who have registered themselves as non-domiciled for tax purposes. “No one really knows where this [non-domicile tax policy] is going to end up, but with an aircraft registered in the Isle of Man at least they will know where that asset stands [i.e. not subject to tax],” said McNamara.
Referring to the ongoing squeeze on credit, McNamara said that lenders are increasingly particular about where the assets that they fund are registered. They want any collateral assets to be on an absolutely firm legal footing.
A Selective Registry
For the time being, the Isle of Man aircraft registry is open only to business aircraft that are operated under private rules, and there are no immediate plans to accept aircraft flown for charter or fractional ownership. The main issue is that the Isle of Man does not yet have provision for issuing its own aircraft operating certificates (AOCs). “The government might seek to do this in the future, but does not want to push the issue for the time being,” said Douglas Aviation Services chairman P.J. McGoldrick.
One possible future option could be that Isle of Man-based companies might own aircraft registered on the island and then lease them back to operators based elsewhere. “This would maintain the value of the aircraft and keeps operation first class [in terms of having a credible registry],” argued McGoldrick.
The government of the Isle of Man is determined that the island should be viewed as an entirely respectable offshore jurisdiction that does not get associated with questionable legal and financial practices, so the registry is selective about the aircraft it accepts.
In fact, according to McNamara, Douglas Aviation Services effectively pre-screens applicants for the Isle of Man government. “More aircraft are turned away than are accepted,” said McNamara. “About 80 percent of calls that we get relate to aircraft or operations that are unsuitable. For the Isle of Man it is a case of enlightened self-interest. They want to keep the quality aircraft and not devalue the register. It’s in no one’s interests to bend the rules.”
In the year since it was established, just over 50 aircraft–more than four times the number the government hoped for–have taken the Isle of Man’s M- tail numbers. “The government’s prediction was for one aircraft a month, but we have done one a week,” said Johnson. The new register already has a wide range of business jets, although as yet there are no Boeing Business Jets or Airbus Corporate Jetliners.
Around 10 of the aircraft belong to residents of the island, who are able
to register light aircraft. Non-residents are able to register only corporate jets of 12,500 pounds max takeoff weight and above, and all aircraft joining the register must have type certificates from the European Aviation Safety Agency.
The first aircraft to be added were Cessna Citations, but Bombardiers are most common now with six jets, including a new Global 5000 and a couple of Challenger 605s. From Hawker Beechcraft, the registry already has a Hawker 800XP and a pair of Premier IAs. Four Hawker 900XPs are coming this year, and at least two of the new Hawker 4000 super-midsize are in the pipeline. One company placed a new Dassault Falcon on the register and has declared itself to be so satisfied with the service and benefits received that it will now add its other five aircraft, including a Falcon 7X.
The Isle of Man aims to combine the tax advantages associated with the island’s fiscal regime with a convenient registration process based on a high level of personal service. The main goal is to boost opportunities for the island’s financial services business.
One of the greatest coups pulled off by Johnson and his team was to secure the
M- registration. This was once assigned to Spain but, as luck would have it, had subsequently been transferred to the UK Civil Aviation Authority, which agreed to let the Isle of Man have it.
Some of the M- tail numbers available are pretty distinctive. “M-USIC has been reserved,” said Johnson, “while three people were after M-ONEY, which will be going on an aircraft shortly. Someone just took M-YWAY, which will go on a new helicopter–as it matches the company slogan–but he’s also a Sinatra fan.” The first on the register was M-AGIC.
Another attractive feature of the register is the portability of registrations. For example, a Sikorsky S-76 helicopter registered M-ONTY has been re-registered as
M-ERRY so that M-ONTY can be transferred to the owner’s new helicopter. This allows owners to keep the same registration as they trade up.
Johnson now believes that the register will be “pretty big in a few years time” and predicted that “for the foreseeable future we should grow at 50 aircraft a year.” The building of a new corporate aviation terminal this year at the island’s Ronaldsway Airport will help cement the Isle of Man’s place in the business aviation world.
By Charles Alcock & Ian Sheppard
June 1, 2008
Taxes
The new Isle of Man aircraft registry could be a possible safe haven for N-registered business aircraft based in Europe. European civil aviation authorities, such as those of France and the UK, have indicated that they are unwilling to tolerate the situation in which aircraft that spend most of their time in Europe remain on the U.S. registry for a variety of reasons, including operators’ desire to avoid making costly technical modifications.
According to Douglas Aviation Services, which handles the affairs of companies and individuals registering aircraft in the Isle of Man, European aviation officials have indicated that they view the offshore registry as an acceptable alternative. Aircraft registration experts have told AIN privately that this could be a face-saving opportunity for European aviation authorities, which they say do not have strong legal grounds to force N-registered aircraft onto their registries. In fact, the Isle of Man is also seeking to attract aircraft currently registered in other European countries, as well as in Asia and the Middle East.
The Isle of Man already has an established shipping registry that is the third largest in the world. It specializes in high-value super-yachts and in this respect complements the role of the new aircraft registry.
As a precursor to opening its aircraft registry in May 2007, the Isle of Man appointed its first Director of Civil Aviation to establish a regulatory framework that draws heavily on the structure and standards of the UK Civil Aviation Authority. The job went to former CAA official and corporate pilot Brian Johnson. His team is part of the Isle of Man’s Department of Trade and Industry.
However, significantly for issues such as taxation and employment law, the Isle of Man is not part of the 27-state European Union. It is a self-governing British Crown Dependency located in the Irish Sea between the UK and Ireland.
“The Isle of Man registry allows companies and individuals to have European-based aircraft without having European tax [exposure],” explained Douglas Aviation Services chief executive Niall McNamara.
The main tax benefits of registration in the Isle of Man are its zero-ratings for corporation, capital gains and inheritance tax. The island also doesn’t charge insurance premium tax (currently 5 percent in the UK). Depending on an aircraft owner’s tax domicile, the Isle of Man registration can reduce or eliminate any exposure to value-added tax on aircraft purchases.
One other possible tax issue is the trend for countries such as the UK to more aggressively seek to tax the income and assets of people who live in the country
but who have registered themselves as non-domiciled for tax purposes. “No one really knows where this [non-domicile tax policy] is going to end up, but with an aircraft registered in the Isle of Man at least they will know where that asset stands [i.e. not subject to tax],” said McNamara.
Referring to the ongoing squeeze on credit, McNamara said that lenders are increasingly particular about where the assets that they fund are registered. They want any collateral assets to be on an absolutely firm legal footing.
A Selective Registry
For the time being, the Isle of Man aircraft registry is open only to business aircraft that are operated under private rules, and there are no immediate plans to accept aircraft flown for charter or fractional ownership. The main issue is that the Isle of Man does not yet have provision for issuing its own aircraft operating certificates (AOCs). “The government might seek to do this in the future, but does not want to push the issue for the time being,” said Douglas Aviation Services chairman P.J. McGoldrick.
One possible future option could be that Isle of Man-based companies might own aircraft registered on the island and then lease them back to operators based elsewhere. “This would maintain the value of the aircraft and keeps operation first class [in terms of having a credible registry],” argued McGoldrick.
The government of the Isle of Man is determined that the island should be viewed as an entirely respectable offshore jurisdiction that does not get associated with questionable legal and financial practices, so the registry is selective about the aircraft it accepts.
In fact, according to McNamara, Douglas Aviation Services effectively pre-screens applicants for the Isle of Man government. “More aircraft are turned away than are accepted,” said McNamara. “About 80 percent of calls that we get relate to aircraft or operations that are unsuitable. For the Isle of Man it is a case of enlightened self-interest. They want to keep the quality aircraft and not devalue the register. It’s in no one’s interests to bend the rules.”
In the year since it was established, just over 50 aircraft–more than four times the number the government hoped for–have taken the Isle of Man’s M- tail numbers. “The government’s prediction was for one aircraft a month, but we have done one a week,” said Johnson. The new register already has a wide range of business jets, although as yet there are no Boeing Business Jets or Airbus Corporate Jetliners.
Around 10 of the aircraft belong to residents of the island, who are able
to register light aircraft. Non-residents are able to register only corporate jets of 12,500 pounds max takeoff weight and above, and all aircraft joining the register must have type certificates from the European Aviation Safety Agency.
The first aircraft to be added were Cessna Citations, but Bombardiers are most common now with six jets, including a new Global 5000 and a couple of Challenger 605s. From Hawker Beechcraft, the registry already has a Hawker 800XP and a pair of Premier IAs. Four Hawker 900XPs are coming this year, and at least two of the new Hawker 4000 super-midsize are in the pipeline. One company placed a new Dassault Falcon on the register and has declared itself to be so satisfied with the service and benefits received that it will now add its other five aircraft, including a Falcon 7X.
The Isle of Man aims to combine the tax advantages associated with the island’s fiscal regime with a convenient registration process based on a high level of personal service. The main goal is to boost opportunities for the island’s financial services business.
One of the greatest coups pulled off by Johnson and his team was to secure the
M- registration. This was once assigned to Spain but, as luck would have it, had subsequently been transferred to the UK Civil Aviation Authority, which agreed to let the Isle of Man have it.
Some of the M- tail numbers available are pretty distinctive. “M-USIC has been reserved,” said Johnson, “while three people were after M-ONEY, which will be going on an aircraft shortly. Someone just took M-YWAY, which will go on a new helicopter–as it matches the company slogan–but he’s also a Sinatra fan.” The first on the register was M-AGIC.
Another attractive feature of the register is the portability of registrations. For example, a Sikorsky S-76 helicopter registered M-ONTY has been re-registered as
M-ERRY so that M-ONTY can be transferred to the owner’s new helicopter. This allows owners to keep the same registration as they trade up.
Johnson now believes that the register will be “pretty big in a few years time” and predicted that “for the foreseeable future we should grow at 50 aircraft a year.” The building of a new corporate aviation terminal this year at the island’s Ronaldsway Airport will help cement the Isle of Man’s place in the business aviation world.
