VLJ operators will they succeed?

[chrispler]

I am wondering, if the upcoming VLJ operators will succeed in times where economies are down.

Do they really have the ability to compete with the current charter operators? Do they really tap into a new customer segment?
Honestly I did not see any advertisments in the press. I would expect a rather agressive marketing . Do you think they already spoke to related companies?

I am looking for your thoughts and comments

[flightlevel1985]

I can somehow imagine that this thread will tie into the Ambeo one in one way or another ...

[hawker750]

VLJ operators

A stand alone VLJ operator stands no chance in a million of making it work, the business plans are flawed. The only hope for a limited sucess for VLJ's is to be a small part of an existing operation (LEA).Buying aircraft is the easy (and cheap) part of this business, having a robust and quality operation is the difficult and expensive bit. VLJ's simply cannot generate enough cash to sustain the operation. Look at EBJ, they were a sort of VLJ operation and I warned this forum 18 months ago that they were doomed. I suspect a lot of people are rinsing investors with sweet talk.

[Knots1000]

I think this is a good time for a revolution in air travel. Companies that have been using private air travel will be looking to cut costs without sacrifising convenience and comfort. VLJ's fit the bill. Who wants to be stuck in a car for 6 hours in traffic when the same journey can be made in 2? Times to precious to waste. Some companies will gain from the economic downturn and I am confidant it can be a VLJ operater.

[Monkey Boy]

Not wishing to take sides it this debate, but using the car journey as an example then we're talking about a trip within the UK as no one would seriously drive a car through the tunnel into Europe for a business meeting.

So, we'll use a Luton to Edinburgh one way flight, basing it on an ad hoc charter flight.

Using a reliable Aviation website (!) you get the following costs:

Beech King Air 200 - €4,650 VAT Exempt - 1 hour 10 minutes filght time

Citation Mustang - €5,350 + VAT (Total €6,286.25) - 1 hour 5 minutes flight time

And then, at the last minute, the passenger number increases to 6........

So given that there is an economic down turn, the soloution is already out there in the shape of a turbo-prop. Why would you need the Mustang, where's the benefit?

[Flintstone]

A Cynic Replies.............

You're missing the point Monkey Boy.

The subject of VLJ viability has already been done to death here as those of us who have been around for more than five minutes well know. I mused in another thread about brand new members popping up together to defend/discuss/promote certain companies and I'm inclined to think that's what's happening here. In fact I'm having a silent bet with myself about something. I'll let you know if I'm right

[littco]

Interesting you say you've seen nothing in the press. Recently I have seen at least 5 articles in magazines and the FT all banging on about VLJ's etc in the last 3 weeks.

There was a big article in last sundays tabloids and at least 2 last week in the FT. If anything I have been amazed at the amount of publicity that is being banded about at the moment for corporate travel and especially VLJ's. I

It does seem though, having read all the articles, they have either been written or promoted my the companies themselves, I've noticed LEA have been mentioned quite a few times.

Now, I supsect this is a clever marketing campaign by certain companies or less likely editors feel this is an area that will sell advertising space, either it seems to very prevelant at the moment as a more affordable way of travelling. If nothing else it makes the sunday doom and gloom papers worth reading at the moment.

[tommoutrie]

flintstone

not going to take that bet cos you're right

tom

[hawker750]

VLJ ops

Any body who can do simple maths can do the sums and find out that they come out to a minus figure. Putting a mustang out at roughly the same price as a king air proves the point. The cost is:Interest on your money..........................Depreciation of your asset......................Base hangarage/parking..........................Insurance costs....................................AOC charges (yours or bought in).............Crew costs...........................................Crew training costs................................Employers liability Insurance for pilots........Operations cost.....................................Fuel............... ......................................Navigation fees......................................Maintenance costs.................................Engine overhaul reserve..........................Catering costs.......................................10% reserve for when things go wrong.......Profit.......................................... .......... NoneThe cost of the above exceeds any reasonably expected revenues. Banks beware, you will loose your money......yet again!!

[chrispler]

Littco...fully agree, but the revolution of a air taxi market looks different for me.
I know all these articles from flightintl. to FT. but I still wonder which marketing platform these company will choose, as they claim to tap into a new customer group (e.g executive of midsize companies).

What do you think?

[Martin Barnes]

We're all doomed!