N999LJ Learjet 60 crashes on take-off SC.
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How about you arm chair speculators and amateur accident investigators wait for the professionals to provide informed information and quit trying to impress everyone with your "expertise?" If people could determine the probable cause of an aircraft accident from photographs on the internet the NTSB investigators would never have to leave their offices!
Jim Bland was a friend of mine for 20+ years and he had over 30 years as a professional pilot.
Jim left behind a 16 year old daughter Erin and wife Anne. Jim was typed in the Lear 60 and Cessna Citation and dual rated in helicopters and fixed wing. He recently retired after a long career as a pilot with the US Customs Service. Jim flew Citations, Cheyennes, Hueys, Blackhawks, and other aircraft for Customs.
Sarah was typed in the Citation Excel and Lear 60.
The airplane had approximately 150 hours total time on the engines and airframe.
The above are facts.
RIP Jim and Sarah et al
Jim Bland was a friend of mine for 20+ years and he had over 30 years as a professional pilot.
Jim left behind a 16 year old daughter Erin and wife Anne. Jim was typed in the Lear 60 and Cessna Citation and dual rated in helicopters and fixed wing. He recently retired after a long career as a pilot with the US Customs Service. Jim flew Citations, Cheyennes, Hueys, Blackhawks, and other aircraft for Customs.
Sarah was typed in the Citation Excel and Lear 60.
The airplane had approximately 150 hours total time on the engines and airframe.
The above are facts.
RIP Jim and Sarah et al
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If people could determine the probable cause of an aircraft accident from photographs on the internet the NTSB investigators would never have to leave their offices!
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How about you arm chair speculators and amateur accident investigators wait for the professionals to provide informed information and quit trying to impress everyone with your "expertise?" If people could determine the probable cause of an aircraft accident from photographs on the internet the NTSB investigators would never have to leave their offices!
Jim Bland was a friend of mine for 20+ years and he had over 30 years as a professional pilot.
Jim left behind a 16 year old daughter Erin and wife Anne. Jim was typed in the Lear 60 and Cessna Citation and dual rated in helicopters and fixed wing. He recently retired after a long career as a pilot with the US Customs Service. Jim flew Citations, Cheyennes, Hueys, Blackhawks, and other aircraft for Customs.
Sarah was typed in the Citation Excel and Lear 60.
The airplane had approximately 150 hours total time on the engines and airframe.
The above are facts.
RIP Jim and Sarah et al
I am very sorry for your loss. Be careful out there.
Jim Bland was a friend of mine for 20+ years and he had over 30 years as a professional pilot.
Jim left behind a 16 year old daughter Erin and wife Anne. Jim was typed in the Lear 60 and Cessna Citation and dual rated in helicopters and fixed wing. He recently retired after a long career as a pilot with the US Customs Service. Jim flew Citations, Cheyennes, Hueys, Blackhawks, and other aircraft for Customs.
Sarah was typed in the Citation Excel and Lear 60.
The airplane had approximately 150 hours total time on the engines and airframe.
The above are facts.
RIP Jim and Sarah et al
I am very sorry for your loss. Be careful out there.
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I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. Some of us, however, are more than curious about the cause of this accident because we have to go work in this airplane tomorrow or the next day.
This is a discussion board, and I believe people are only discussing possible causes and educating each other about the particular airframe. No one is claiming to know what happened.
Furthermore, no one has blamed the pilots, and my current post might be the closest thing to "disrespectful" in the whole thread.
RIP to all four killed, condolences to friends and family. Hopefully the experts will come up with some answers for those of us who still fly this thing so it doesn't happen again.
This is a discussion board, and I believe people are only discussing possible causes and educating each other about the particular airframe. No one is claiming to know what happened.
Furthermore, no one has blamed the pilots, and my current post might be the closest thing to "disrespectful" in the whole thread.
RIP to all four killed, condolences to friends and family. Hopefully the experts will come up with some answers for those of us who still fly this thing so it doesn't happen again.
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"The plane was operated by Global Exec Aviation of Long Beach and was certified to operate last year, an NTSB official said.
A 10-member NTSB team walked the crash site and retrieved the cockpit voice recorder, which was rushed to a lab in Washington, D.C. Because of the ferocity of the fire, investigators were unsure of the viability of the recording."
Former Blink-182 drummer, popular DJ survive plane crash that killed 4 - Los Angeles Times
A 10-member NTSB team walked the crash site and retrieved the cockpit voice recorder, which was rushed to a lab in Washington, D.C. Because of the ferocity of the fire, investigators were unsure of the viability of the recording."
Former Blink-182 drummer, popular DJ survive plane crash that killed 4 - Los Angeles Times
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Jim Bland has been a personal friend of mine for 28 years. I have flown with him a number of times. Jim is a total aviation professional. I want to know as much as the next person why this happened. I will leave that to the professionals. This has been a very difficult day for those of us who knew Jim & Sarah.
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Asking fellow pilots, many of whom fly or have flown the 60, not to discuss the accident or speculate as to its cause is ridiculous. We know you're mourning your friends and we're sorry, but this is a "discussion board" after all.
I didn't know Jim, but I met Sarah on several occasions.
I used to work with insurance companies, the FAA and NTSB on site during accident investigations and I can tell you that usually what you see is what you get. By that I mean the NTSB will take 2 years and spend thousands of hours before releasing a report determining that a VFR pilot entered IMC and hit a mountain, which was obvious within 90 seconds of arriving on scene. I'm sure all the most likely causes will be looked at very closely (rejected takeoff for whatever reason factoring the known inadequate brakes and gear on the 60, uncommanded engine rollback, improper takeoff configuration etc.) and it will likely turn out to be one of them. Sometimes it gets more complicated, but usually not. Hopefully the CVR data will be viable.
Regadless, it's a tragedy for the friends and families who have lost loved ones and I feel for the folks here who were friends with the pilots or passengers.
I didn't know Jim, but I met Sarah on several occasions.
I used to work with insurance companies, the FAA and NTSB on site during accident investigations and I can tell you that usually what you see is what you get. By that I mean the NTSB will take 2 years and spend thousands of hours before releasing a report determining that a VFR pilot entered IMC and hit a mountain, which was obvious within 90 seconds of arriving on scene. I'm sure all the most likely causes will be looked at very closely (rejected takeoff for whatever reason factoring the known inadequate brakes and gear on the 60, uncommanded engine rollback, improper takeoff configuration etc.) and it will likely turn out to be one of them. Sometimes it gets more complicated, but usually not. Hopefully the CVR data will be viable.
Regadless, it's a tragedy for the friends and families who have lost loved ones and I feel for the folks here who were friends with the pilots or passengers.
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All of you arm-chair quarterbacks/accident investigators, know this. The Achilles heel of the Learjet 60 would have to be it's wheels and brakes. This airplane was entitled to the triple brakes, but that does not reduce balanced field lengths if it did have them.
Air mode=no brakes, no anti-skid, no spoilers, no thrust reversers. So, loose the squat switch from blown tire=emergency braking system is all you have left.
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I'm new here, but I have an insight on this accident that may be helpful to others, so I decided to respond to this discussion. My connection to this accident is two fold: I lost a dear friend and former co-worker in this accident and--like others may have--I discovered this thread while searching for answers.
The '60 Jim and I crewed together out of SNA was sold this past June, and like other pilots these days, we found ourselves back in the job market. I spoke with him only last week, when he told me of a flight he was making in another plane (60-314, the subject aircraft of this article). He knew that I had taken delivery of this aircraft from the factory in Wichita for another owner in January of 2007, and we had been discussing what a beautiful aircraft it was. Much has been said of Jim Bland in this post, and I can only say that I second all of it. Jim was a fine pilot in every way. He was a meticulous, experienced, professional who was a joy to fly with and a pleasure to 'hang with' on a trip. I would have put my family in any plane that Jim commanded. Jim's listing as co-pilot had nothing to do with his level of experience. I didn't know Sarah, but Jim spoke highly of her. Sarah's longevity with Global Exec. put her in the left seat. Jim could have easily have been there, as he was on many of our flights. We operated as Co-Captains on our prior job and, like all of us who do this job, we experienced our share of 'issues' in flight: urgencies that required good CRM, problem solving and sound decision making. If I could pick a team mate to have when something went wrong, Jim would be my pick. He was a level headed Pro.
The aircraft had indeed been in for maintenance prior to this flight, but it was in for bleed air issues that they were having at altitude. I'll leave the door open, but I can't see how the problem that they were having could have led to this accident and I am inclined to say that it was incidental to what happened in Columbia.
I have quite a few hours in 60-314, and I know of no issues that could have lead to this accident. To my knowledge, it was a well maintained, low time aircraft. A bit heavy perhaps because it was very well equipped, but it was perfectly capable of making Columbia to VNY non-stop, winds permitting. As for the take off flap setting: As it was pointed out earlier, there is nothing at all wrong with taking off with either 8 or 20 degrees selected. It is entirely pilot choice based on the circumstances. Second segment climb is a bit better with flaps 8 and also rotation is a bit smoother, in my opinion. I ran the numbers based on what I know, and UltraNav shows a takeoff field length of around 5,400 feet with flaps 20, and 5836 feet with flaps 8. Either would have been fine here. And there is no way this plane took off improperly configured. The T/O warning horn would have been prohibitively annoying, and in any case, Jim was a nut about flap settings: we checked and briefed the settings three times prior to every take off. This plane was configured properly, I can assure anyone.
Thanks for having me here in this discussion. I appriciate the insight from other professionals, and I hope some of you find this information helpful as we all look for answers to this terrible crash.
Jim and Sarah, rest in peace. My thoughts go out to all of those who's lives have been tragically impacted here. And God bless you Ann, my heart grieves with you.
The '60 Jim and I crewed together out of SNA was sold this past June, and like other pilots these days, we found ourselves back in the job market. I spoke with him only last week, when he told me of a flight he was making in another plane (60-314, the subject aircraft of this article). He knew that I had taken delivery of this aircraft from the factory in Wichita for another owner in January of 2007, and we had been discussing what a beautiful aircraft it was. Much has been said of Jim Bland in this post, and I can only say that I second all of it. Jim was a fine pilot in every way. He was a meticulous, experienced, professional who was a joy to fly with and a pleasure to 'hang with' on a trip. I would have put my family in any plane that Jim commanded. Jim's listing as co-pilot had nothing to do with his level of experience. I didn't know Sarah, but Jim spoke highly of her. Sarah's longevity with Global Exec. put her in the left seat. Jim could have easily have been there, as he was on many of our flights. We operated as Co-Captains on our prior job and, like all of us who do this job, we experienced our share of 'issues' in flight: urgencies that required good CRM, problem solving and sound decision making. If I could pick a team mate to have when something went wrong, Jim would be my pick. He was a level headed Pro.
The aircraft had indeed been in for maintenance prior to this flight, but it was in for bleed air issues that they were having at altitude. I'll leave the door open, but I can't see how the problem that they were having could have led to this accident and I am inclined to say that it was incidental to what happened in Columbia.
I have quite a few hours in 60-314, and I know of no issues that could have lead to this accident. To my knowledge, it was a well maintained, low time aircraft. A bit heavy perhaps because it was very well equipped, but it was perfectly capable of making Columbia to VNY non-stop, winds permitting. As for the take off flap setting: As it was pointed out earlier, there is nothing at all wrong with taking off with either 8 or 20 degrees selected. It is entirely pilot choice based on the circumstances. Second segment climb is a bit better with flaps 8 and also rotation is a bit smoother, in my opinion. I ran the numbers based on what I know, and UltraNav shows a takeoff field length of around 5,400 feet with flaps 20, and 5836 feet with flaps 8. Either would have been fine here. And there is no way this plane took off improperly configured. The T/O warning horn would have been prohibitively annoying, and in any case, Jim was a nut about flap settings: we checked and briefed the settings three times prior to every take off. This plane was configured properly, I can assure anyone.
Thanks for having me here in this discussion. I appriciate the insight from other professionals, and I hope some of you find this information helpful as we all look for answers to this terrible crash.
Jim and Sarah, rest in peace. My thoughts go out to all of those who's lives have been tragically impacted here. And God bless you Ann, my heart grieves with you.
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Well, just heard they aborted for a burst tyre. That's risky on any airplane. Wonder why the reversers don't appear out...
Interesting information. Where did that come from? Per a previous post, if a squat/prox switch was damaged, they might not deploy.
Interesting information. Where did that come from? Per a previous post, if a squat/prox switch was damaged, they might not deploy.
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Tire Burst...if true, I wonder if there was FOD or debris on the runway prior to takeoff causing the tire to burst (concorde?)
In this age, it seems a shame that there couldn't be a 'ground mode over-ride' switch on the throttles or something like that. I've flown planes that have over ride switches to make sure the pilot can always tell the plane if it is on the ground or not.
The concept of tire burst is an important one...especially on tail mounted engine planes in which the tire could end up in the engine.
The selection of flaps can be a difficult one. We had guys who always used max flaps for takeoff to reduce tire problems. We had others who always used min takeoff flaps to have a better second segment climb.
I do hope that the NTSB will seek the history of the tires and brakes too.
Of course it would be virtually impossible to see some FOD or debris on the runway at night.
This accident should remind us all that the crushable concrete overruns should be standard at all airports. 1000' of this EMAS might have saved things.
To those who have lost friends, I am sorry. If by talking about this tragedy someone takes an extra moment to check tires or runways or the like, or someone requires a design change, then it is worthwhile.
Within months of the FAA test of EMAS in the early 1990's, I had made an appointment to talk to my congressman and US senator about installing EMAS at all airports. I hope that all of you will get involved in this effort. Voices of safety are often not heard well by government.
In this age, it seems a shame that there couldn't be a 'ground mode over-ride' switch on the throttles or something like that. I've flown planes that have over ride switches to make sure the pilot can always tell the plane if it is on the ground or not.
The concept of tire burst is an important one...especially on tail mounted engine planes in which the tire could end up in the engine.
The selection of flaps can be a difficult one. We had guys who always used max flaps for takeoff to reduce tire problems. We had others who always used min takeoff flaps to have a better second segment climb.
I do hope that the NTSB will seek the history of the tires and brakes too.
Of course it would be virtually impossible to see some FOD or debris on the runway at night.
This accident should remind us all that the crushable concrete overruns should be standard at all airports. 1000' of this EMAS might have saved things.
To those who have lost friends, I am sorry. If by talking about this tragedy someone takes an extra moment to check tires or runways or the like, or someone requires a design change, then it is worthwhile.
Within months of the FAA test of EMAS in the early 1990's, I had made an appointment to talk to my congressman and US senator about installing EMAS at all airports. I hope that all of you will get involved in this effort. Voices of safety are often not heard well by government.
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Interesting information. Where did that come from?
Feds: Doomed crew in SC crash thought tire blew
By MEG KINNARD – 1 hour ago
WEST COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — The doomed crew piloting a Learjet that crashed on takeoff, killing four people and injuring two popular musicians, thought a tire blew as they hurtled down the runway, a federal safety official said Sunday.
National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said a cockpit voice recording of the Friday night crash indicates the crew tried to abort the takeoff, but then signaled the efforts were failing.
"The crew reacted to a sound that was consistent with a tire blowout," Hersman said.
Former Blink-182 drummer Travis Barker and celebrity disc jockey DJ AM were critically injured in the crash, but one of their doctors said Sunday he expected them to fully recover.
Two of the musicians' close friends and two crew members were killed when the plane shot off the end of the runway, ripped through a fence and crossed a highway. It came to rest on an embankment a quarter-mile from the end of the runway, engulfed in flames.
Hersman said no cause of the crash has been determined and the investigation is ongoing. She did say that pieces of tire were recovered about 2,800 feet from where the plane started its takeoff. The runway is 8,600 feet long.
The plane was traveling at least 92 mph, its minimum takeoff speed, when the crew thought the tire burst, Hersman said...
By MEG KINNARD – 1 hour ago
WEST COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — The doomed crew piloting a Learjet that crashed on takeoff, killing four people and injuring two popular musicians, thought a tire blew as they hurtled down the runway, a federal safety official said Sunday.
National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said a cockpit voice recording of the Friday night crash indicates the crew tried to abort the takeoff, but then signaled the efforts were failing.
"The crew reacted to a sound that was consistent with a tire blowout," Hersman said.
Former Blink-182 drummer Travis Barker and celebrity disc jockey DJ AM were critically injured in the crash, but one of their doctors said Sunday he expected them to fully recover.
Two of the musicians' close friends and two crew members were killed when the plane shot off the end of the runway, ripped through a fence and crossed a highway. It came to rest on an embankment a quarter-mile from the end of the runway, engulfed in flames.
Hersman said no cause of the crash has been determined and the investigation is ongoing. She did say that pieces of tire were recovered about 2,800 feet from where the plane started its takeoff. The runway is 8,600 feet long.
The plane was traveling at least 92 mph, its minimum takeoff speed, when the crew thought the tire burst, Hersman said...
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GO or NO GO
After reading the above article, the question comes to mind about training and procedures for this plane.
In airline ops, a tire blown at 80 knots or more (92mph or so) is usally a go. Below 80knots is a reject.
The decision to go or reject is one of the hardest ones a pilot will make. For many years in airline ops we have been taught to "GO" if there is any question.
None of us will know what we would have done, presented with a problem. This post is not meant to point fingers.
Many of us have been watching CNN and the like when they cover a landing gear problem. I can recall many in which the plane blows a tire on takeoff and circles for hours to burn off (not dump) fuel.
In airline ops, a tire blown at 80 knots or more (92mph or so) is usally a go. Below 80knots is a reject.
The decision to go or reject is one of the hardest ones a pilot will make. For many years in airline ops we have been taught to "GO" if there is any question.
None of us will know what we would have done, presented with a problem. This post is not meant to point fingers.
Many of us have been watching CNN and the like when they cover a landing gear problem. I can recall many in which the plane blows a tire on takeoff and circles for hours to burn off (not dump) fuel.
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Hi everyone. This is my first post here and I would like to send my condolences to the colleagues of the flight crew that were lost due to this accident. I know it must be very difficult for all of you.
I have been lurking around here for a while. I was raised around aviation. My father was in the 82nd Airborne, my first step-father and current step-father are both A&P mechanics. I always wanted to be a pilot but was crushed when an Air Force recruiter told me I was too short to fly (when I was 15, admittedly I haven't gotten any taller than 5'3 since then) and then I had a bad experience on a commerical flight and developed a fear of flying. Since I have been too afraid to fly, for years I have immersed myself in learning about how aircraft operate, especially since I have had the benefit of relatives who help keep the birds in the air. I feel that the best way to face a fear is to educate yourself about what it is that you are afraid of. Even at my advanced age (31) I have still considered going to A&P school because despite the fact that I am a female, I am good at fixing things. I am not as educated as all of you, so please forgive me if I don't sound very knowledgeable.
Sorry for the long introduction, I will get to the point and the reason I came to this thread. It is my understanding that after a certain point the takeoff cannot be aborted. If the tire did blow, and the crew didn't realize it until the last minute, it seems that they would have gone ahead with the takeoff. I thought that the comment about the debris getting into the engine was a good thought to consider. These pilots by all accounts were very experienced, and according to what I have read, by what can be seen in the pictures, the reversers were not deployed. So then, it can be assumed that the engines failed upon ingesting the tire and/or runway debris? That seems reasonable to me.
I respect all of you for the work that you do, and again, I would like to offer my heartfelt condolences to anyone that has suffered the loss of friends or loved ones.
I have been lurking around here for a while. I was raised around aviation. My father was in the 82nd Airborne, my first step-father and current step-father are both A&P mechanics. I always wanted to be a pilot but was crushed when an Air Force recruiter told me I was too short to fly (when I was 15, admittedly I haven't gotten any taller than 5'3 since then) and then I had a bad experience on a commerical flight and developed a fear of flying. Since I have been too afraid to fly, for years I have immersed myself in learning about how aircraft operate, especially since I have had the benefit of relatives who help keep the birds in the air. I feel that the best way to face a fear is to educate yourself about what it is that you are afraid of. Even at my advanced age (31) I have still considered going to A&P school because despite the fact that I am a female, I am good at fixing things. I am not as educated as all of you, so please forgive me if I don't sound very knowledgeable.
Sorry for the long introduction, I will get to the point and the reason I came to this thread. It is my understanding that after a certain point the takeoff cannot be aborted. If the tire did blow, and the crew didn't realize it until the last minute, it seems that they would have gone ahead with the takeoff. I thought that the comment about the debris getting into the engine was a good thought to consider. These pilots by all accounts were very experienced, and according to what I have read, by what can be seen in the pictures, the reversers were not deployed. So then, it can be assumed that the engines failed upon ingesting the tire and/or runway debris? That seems reasonable to me.
I respect all of you for the work that you do, and again, I would like to offer my heartfelt condolences to anyone that has suffered the loss of friends or loved ones.
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My opinion of Lears
Sad accident -
xxx
I have flown Lears long time ago, not much recently, last time nearly 5 years ago in a 31A. Have about 2,500 hrs on them, 20/30 and 55 types. I was a Lear type rating CFI in my days as F/O-F/E with the airlines, this to make extra money.
xxx
Of course I loved the Lears, especially the 24B and its near 7,000 FPM initial climb rate, which reduced to (only) 2,500 FPM when simulating ONE ENGINE operations. But there were a few things I did not like as much.
xxx
I did not like the "spoiler" switch (with a guard) on the throttle quadrant.
Would have preferred to have, say, a little "handle" rather than a tiny switch.
Easier to grab to perform a rejected takeoff.
xxx
The other thing I did not like were the reversers.
Well, I liked the reversers (especially hydraulic reversers fast to deploy).
But hated the "reversers switching panel" with small tweezer-size switches to "ARM" reversers.
We used to arm reversers on takeoff until reaching V1 speed.
Was not easy gestures to "deploy spoilers" and "arm reversers" at touch down.
I have never flown 60 series - I suppose it is close to compare to 55s...
Happy contrails
xxx
I have flown Lears long time ago, not much recently, last time nearly 5 years ago in a 31A. Have about 2,500 hrs on them, 20/30 and 55 types. I was a Lear type rating CFI in my days as F/O-F/E with the airlines, this to make extra money.
xxx
Of course I loved the Lears, especially the 24B and its near 7,000 FPM initial climb rate, which reduced to (only) 2,500 FPM when simulating ONE ENGINE operations. But there were a few things I did not like as much.
xxx
I did not like the "spoiler" switch (with a guard) on the throttle quadrant.
Would have preferred to have, say, a little "handle" rather than a tiny switch.
Easier to grab to perform a rejected takeoff.
xxx
The other thing I did not like were the reversers.
Well, I liked the reversers (especially hydraulic reversers fast to deploy).
But hated the "reversers switching panel" with small tweezer-size switches to "ARM" reversers.
We used to arm reversers on takeoff until reaching V1 speed.
Was not easy gestures to "deploy spoilers" and "arm reversers" at touch down.
I have never flown 60 series - I suppose it is close to compare to 55s...
Happy contrails
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It is my understanding that after a certain point the takeoff cannot be aborted. If the tire did blow, and the crew didn't realize it until the last minute, it seems that they would have gone ahead with the takeoff.
A good article on this subject with recent (a decade ago) regulatory thinking, some statistics, and accident data starts on page 3 here:
http://www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_oct98.pdf
______________________________
We used to arm reversers on takeoff until reaching V1 speed.
Last edited by Airbubba; 21st Sep 2008 at 23:48.
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wannabee fly girl
I didn't mean to suggest that debris went into the engine, only that it might be possible and that tail mounted engines were more likely to ingest tires than wing mounted engines.
It is too soon to know really what happened in the cockpit...as far as decision making.
good luck with your aviation dreams, remember that safety is the ultimate responsibility and most important part of any aviation job.
I didn't mean to suggest that debris went into the engine, only that it might be possible and that tail mounted engines were more likely to ingest tires than wing mounted engines.
It is too soon to know really what happened in the cockpit...as far as decision making.
good luck with your aviation dreams, remember that safety is the ultimate responsibility and most important part of any aviation job.
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Escaped at Last... my deepest condolences for the loss of your friend. It's always a shame to lose anyone in this business, but especially people like Mr. Bland as you've described him. Blue skies and tailwinds, brother.
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Sad accident -
xxx
I have flown Lears long time ago, not much recently, last time nearly 5 years ago in a 31A. Have about 2,500 hrs on them, 20/30 and 55 types. I was a Lear type rating CFI in my days as F/O-F/E with the airlines, this to make extra money.
xxx
Of course I loved the Lears, especially the 24B and its near 7,000 FPM initial climb rate, which reduced to (only) 2,500 FPM when simulating ONE ENGINE operations. But there were a few things I did not like as much.
xxx
I did not like the "spoiler" switch (with a guard) on the throttle quadrant.
Would have preferred to have, say, a little "handle" rather than a tiny switch.
Easier to grab to perform a rejected takeoff.
xxx
The other thing I did not like were the reversers.
Well, I liked the reversers (especially hydraulic reversers fast to deploy).
But hated the "reversers switching panel" with small tweezer-size switches to "ARM" reversers.
We used to arm reversers on takeoff until reaching V1 speed.
Was not easy gestures to "deploy spoilers" and "arm reversers" at touch down.
I have never flown 60 series - I suppose it is close to compare to 55s...
xxx
I have flown Lears long time ago, not much recently, last time nearly 5 years ago in a 31A. Have about 2,500 hrs on them, 20/30 and 55 types. I was a Lear type rating CFI in my days as F/O-F/E with the airlines, this to make extra money.
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Of course I loved the Lears, especially the 24B and its near 7,000 FPM initial climb rate, which reduced to (only) 2,500 FPM when simulating ONE ENGINE operations. But there were a few things I did not like as much.
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I did not like the "spoiler" switch (with a guard) on the throttle quadrant.
Would have preferred to have, say, a little "handle" rather than a tiny switch.
Easier to grab to perform a rejected takeoff.
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The other thing I did not like were the reversers.
Well, I liked the reversers (especially hydraulic reversers fast to deploy).
But hated the "reversers switching panel" with small tweezer-size switches to "ARM" reversers.
We used to arm reversers on takeoff until reaching V1 speed.
Was not easy gestures to "deploy spoilers" and "arm reversers" at touch down.
I have never flown 60 series - I suppose it is close to compare to 55s...
As for debris... it's highly unlikely that debris from tires would go in the engines (like Concord) because the engine inlets are over the flaps. Debris would have to fly all the way forward and then up over the wings to get to the engines. Flap damage is possible from a blown tire, though. Also, the squat switch and wiring for the wheel speed generators (for anti-skid) are quite exposed to damage should there be a blowout. I just spoke with an engineer from Bombardier last week who lamented the vulnerability of the wiring to the wheel-speed generators. Historically, it's a tricky anti-skid system. Reference NTSB ID NYC07LA202... another anti-skid issue that has yet to be resolved with the 60.
As far as the plane going into "air-mode"... this is controlled by a squat-switch relay box. However, each individual squat switch is responsible for certain things independent of the relay box. For example, for antiskid the left switch controls outboard wheel brakes and the right switch controls the inboard brakes. Autospoilers won't deploy with only one squat switch in "ground mode," however, if the handle is manually pulled they will extend in that scenario. As far as I understand from my experience and the books I have, the T/R's will not deploy with just one switch in "air mode.''
To Airbubba:
There is an STC available for the 60 that installs a third disc on each side... supposedly it doesn't do much for braking, but it does extend the life of the brakes and the duration for the AD (requiring an A+P to inspect the brakes at certain intervals. The certification on the the 60 quickly required that the wheels/brakes from the older, smaller lears that made it onto the 60 be inspected pretty often. I still hate flying it with the T/R's MEL'd and strapped.
And the emerg. brake is still a red handle under the thrust levers that you slowly, carefully push down.
Again, I have very little idea what happened. I'm not speculating... just offering some information about the 60 to folks who don't know the plane.
Be safe out there all...
And YES TO EMAS! They should be everywhere on runways under 10,000'.