CL600 Series AD. Take-Off & Winter Ops.
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CL600 Series AD. Take-Off & Winter Ops.
AD from Bombardier dated 20/8/08 tells us that all CL600 series crew will need to undertake and pass an internet based course on take-off procedures and winter ops by the first of November. Without this qualification we will not be allowed to fly in icing conditions.
All well and good except the course is not even available yet. This seems to have come out of the blue, even Bombardier's instructors didn't know it was on the way
So, what do you put your money on. A last minute rush, flawed (hurried) course or deferral of the deadline?
All well and good except the course is not even available yet. This seems to have come out of the blue, even Bombardier's instructors didn't know it was on the way
So, what do you put your money on. A last minute rush, flawed (hurried) course or deferral of the deadline?
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In other words, it is not a "safe wing" IMHO. I stand to be corrected and shot down, as I don't fly an example of a/c in question. In fact I am happy not to fly one.
Too many people been caught out, not to raise concerns here.
Too many people been caught out, not to raise concerns here.
Hmmm. You might want to visit the Bombardier Training webby (www.batraining.com), which has two couses up and running.
This one http://www.batraining.com/Online%20C...ty/player.html is i.a.w. Transport Canada Airworthiness Directives CF-2008-15R1 and CF-2008-16R1,
and this one http://www.batraining.com/Online%20C...ss/default.asp is their own, afaik.
This one http://www.batraining.com/Online%20C...ty/player.html is i.a.w. Transport Canada Airworthiness Directives CF-2008-15R1 and CF-2008-16R1,
and this one http://www.batraining.com/Online%20C...ss/default.asp is their own, afaik.
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Never could figure out why someone would want to buy a jet, for that kind of money, that couldn't fly above F410. The only answer that keeps coming up is cabin size. Can't imagine being stuck in the 30s having to always make turns to get around around clouds and turbulance.
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In other words, it is not a "safe wing" IMHO
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Flightester...I couldn't agree with you more...it's like people saying Lears, or MU2s are dangerous...whatever...put a 2000 hour PIC in a Challenger on a snowy day...he's over his head...then when he crashes with 3 inches of ice on the wings...he bitches that the wing sucks...
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Without wishing to sleight any of our flying brethren I'm inclined to agree with the above. Do as you're supposed to, keep a clean wing and rotate at the correct rate and it's fine. Cut corners and fly ham-fisted and we all know the outcome.
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...it's like people saying Lears, or MU2s are dangerous...whatever...put a 2000 hour PIC in a Challenger on a snowy day...he's over his head...then when he crashes with 3 inches of ice on the wings...he bitches that the wing sucks...
Never could figure out why someone would want to buy a jet, for that kind of money, that couldn't fly above F410. The only answer that keeps coming up is cabin size. Can't imagine being stuck in the 30s having to always make turns to get around around clouds and turbulance.
You fly around "turbulance," do you?
It's FL410, by the way.
Most operations don't extend above FL410, regardless of the aircraft certification anyway. Including the aircraft you cited in the first quote listed above.
What has cabin size got to do with it?
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AD from Bombardier dated 20/8/08 tells us that all CL600 series crew will need to undertake and pass an internet based course on take-off procedures and winter ops by the first of November. Without this qualification we will not be allowed to fly in icing conditions.
All well and good except the course is not even available yet. This seems to have come out of the blue, even Bombardier's instructors didn't know it was on the way
So, what do you put your money on. A last minute rush, flawed (hurried) course or deferral of the deadline?
All well and good except the course is not even available yet. This seems to have come out of the blue, even Bombardier's instructors didn't know it was on the way
So, what do you put your money on. A last minute rush, flawed (hurried) course or deferral of the deadline?
2. Without the training you will have to turn the Wing Anti-Ice on for any winter/cold weather takeoff (there are specific details in the mandated materials). "we will not be allowed to fly in icing conditions" is not true.
3. The course exists as noted above. In fact, it's been up and available since before the AD was released.... I think it first went online about a month ago.
4. The likelihood of a training requirement has been advertised since the initial releases of the two ADs, back in March.
Originally Posted by TC AD for Challengers, initial release
This Airworthiness Directive represents initial action taken on this issue. Further corrective actions are anticipated, including crew awareness and training with regard to winter operations. Information that is likely to form the basis for such training, and which all operators are encouraged to review and disseminate to their crews, is available online and by contacting Bombardier Aerospace.
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MFS.
Apologies, the AD of course came from TC. I was reading the Advisory Wire from Bombardier and mashed the two together.
Bombardier are saying they will be the ones to issue documentation confirming qualification yet their training department (at least, the one I have been speaking to) say this came as a complete surprise to them. Out of the blue, so to speak
Apologies, the AD of course came from TC. I was reading the Advisory Wire from Bombardier and mashed the two together.
Bombardier are saying they will be the ones to issue documentation confirming qualification yet their training department (at least, the one I have been speaking to) say this came as a complete surprise to them. Out of the blue, so to speak
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Flightester...I couldn't agree with you more...it's like people saying Lears, or MU2s are dangerous...whatever...put a 2000 hour PIC in a Challenger on a snowy day...he's over his head...then when he crashes with 3 inches of ice on the wings...he bitches that the wing sucks...
Nothing, absolutely nothing to do with hours. Just with brains.
There are 2 types, one needs to put his hand on a glowing cooker, the other one just uses common sense to understand that a working cooker is hot.
Likewise it goes for pilots and ice. I was flying with such an experienced piece of human resource in a Challenger 300, this guy - beying the DO of an AOC operation - wanted us to fly with an airplane completely covered in hoar frost.
Me being polite, I suggested that it might be a bad idea, since the passenger flies very regularly and probably would not like a frosted airplane, he wanted to deice the wings ONLY - "the tail is deiced by design - donīt you remember the typerating" was his argument...the guy had something like 5000+ hours.
After me telling him I wonīt fly without a complete deicing, he strolled off babbling something about KingAirs that never had to be deiced etcetc.
The 300 wing is totally different than the 600 Series I was told, however I nowadays deice my nearly straight wing Sovereign as I deiced my KingAirs etcetc.
The Kazahkstan Accident seems to be more complicated btw., rumour has it that they changed the deicing trucks in the procedure since one runned empty and that they fail (or rather they denied to take one) to produce a sample of the second deicing machine for investigation.
If thats true , one has to be very careful in KAZ when having deiced...
