Lear ETOPS - 135
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Lear ETOPS - 135
Has anyone come up with a reasonable engine inoperative speed for Learjets (circa 31) to comply with staying under the 180 ETOPS limit for FAR 135? The only published OE speed is long range cruise, in the AFM way too low for ETOPS computations need a minimum of 335 TAS.
Im from 121 Ops and havent had to deal with this before but where do you go? Does Lear (now Bombardier) provide these numbers or would you look to SABRE or some other Computer Flight Plan Service?
Apologize for such a basic question Im new at this game in this type of equipment.
Thanks for any information or suggestions.
LOKE
Im from 121 Ops and havent had to deal with this before but where do you go? Does Lear (now Bombardier) provide these numbers or would you look to SABRE or some other Computer Flight Plan Service?
Apologize for such a basic question Im new at this game in this type of equipment.
Thanks for any information or suggestions.
LOKE
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Are you required to operated ETOPS under 135? I thought that it only applied to 121?
I wouldnt bother asking Sabre, they are useless in supplying aircraft data. Suggest you look at Jeppesen.
Rgds
Mutt
I wouldnt bother asking Sabre, they are useless in supplying aircraft data. Suggest you look at Jeppesen.
Rgds
Mutt
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I am pretty sure that Lear is not ETOPS aircraft.
Now, I work for JAR-OPS 1 operator.
We operate twin engine long range business jets with "ETOPS alike Operations" with the approval of local authority.
However, they let us go only for 120 mins anyhow, since none of the business aircraft to my knowledge are ETOPS qualified per say.
For calculating the range, we went to AFM Cruise Control and Flight Planning Manual and in case the fuel or oxygen is not the problem, we can cover around 720 NM in 120 mins.
Hope this helped!
Now, I work for JAR-OPS 1 operator.
We operate twin engine long range business jets with "ETOPS alike Operations" with the approval of local authority.
However, they let us go only for 120 mins anyhow, since none of the business aircraft to my knowledge are ETOPS qualified per say.
For calculating the range, we went to AFM Cruise Control and Flight Planning Manual and in case the fuel or oxygen is not the problem, we can cover around 720 NM in 120 mins.
Hope this helped!
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Thanks for the quick reply Mutt,
No - you do not need ETOPS in 135 - so long as you are under 180 minutes - but you have to come up with a S/E speed to verify that - and that is where we are having difficulty. All they've shown me is the AFM - I'll try to find out if there is some sort of Flight Planning Manual.
In the interum I'll pass along your suggestion for JEP.
Thanks,
LOKE
No - you do not need ETOPS in 135 - so long as you are under 180 minutes - but you have to come up with a S/E speed to verify that - and that is where we are having difficulty. All they've shown me is the AFM - I'll try to find out if there is some sort of Flight Planning Manual.
In the interum I'll pass along your suggestion for JEP.
Thanks,
LOKE
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Jeppesen has a 1LE speed loaded for the LJ35, but it doesnt show what the actual speed is.
Did you know that the logic that we use to establish an ETOPS area of operation is based on starting with the Optimum Altitude Cruise speed with a gradual driftdown to 10,000 feet and the 1LE cruise speed, so that means that we start with about 500 KTAS and end with 375 KTAS, the area of operation is therefore much greater than if we utilized 375 KTAS * Approved time, this would have resulted in 750 nms for 120 mins, but using the other method we get 840 nms.
In your case, i doubt that you will get manufacturer support, so take an average LRC/weight combination for 10,000 feet, multiply it by 180 mins and use this as your defined Area of Operation.
Good Luck.
Mutt
Did you know that the logic that we use to establish an ETOPS area of operation is based on starting with the Optimum Altitude Cruise speed with a gradual driftdown to 10,000 feet and the 1LE cruise speed, so that means that we start with about 500 KTAS and end with 375 KTAS, the area of operation is therefore much greater than if we utilized 375 KTAS * Approved time, this would have resulted in 750 nms for 120 mins, but using the other method we get 840 nms.
In your case, i doubt that you will get manufacturer support, so take an average LRC/weight combination for 10,000 feet, multiply it by 180 mins and use this as your defined Area of Operation.
Good Luck.
Mutt
