Future of NetJets (Europe) ?!?
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Did the Netjets business model cater for prices of 200USD+ per barrel of crude oil?
Did they cover problems arising for an increased pressure on the environment, in case all the rich start flying their own jets? What about the carbon footprints of these nice and shiny sexy jets? The amount of CO2 emission/pax carried?...
Remember, Netjets ops require a huge amount of empty ferry flights!
Did they cater for the rising number of ATC organizations due to the fact that these corporate jets take the same amount of airspace as a 747, they require separation as well etc and this in an already congested airspace, especially over mainland Europe.
The argument of the rich getting richer etc is all very well, but a huge amount of NJE blockhours are sold to people who use the NJE service for showing off. They dont have the money to buy their own jet but they like the snob element of it, so they buy a 25hr share in a jet.
These people do feel the world wide slowdown and they will start to cut this budget if needed.
Just playing devils advocate here, but this unbridled growth of fractional ownership has its limits as well and I am afraid that these limits might be reached sooner than we all think!
Did they cover problems arising for an increased pressure on the environment, in case all the rich start flying their own jets? What about the carbon footprints of these nice and shiny sexy jets? The amount of CO2 emission/pax carried?...
Remember, Netjets ops require a huge amount of empty ferry flights!
Did they cater for the rising number of ATC organizations due to the fact that these corporate jets take the same amount of airspace as a 747, they require separation as well etc and this in an already congested airspace, especially over mainland Europe.
The argument of the rich getting richer etc is all very well, but a huge amount of NJE blockhours are sold to people who use the NJE service for showing off. They dont have the money to buy their own jet but they like the snob element of it, so they buy a 25hr share in a jet.
These people do feel the world wide slowdown and they will start to cut this budget if needed.
Just playing devils advocate here, but this unbridled growth of fractional ownership has its limits as well and I am afraid that these limits might be reached sooner than we all think!
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Originally Posted by angryblackman
NO FAA CERTIFICATES...(There Unfit to Fly)
NJE have hired American and Canadian pilots. They just happened to hold JAA licences which are required to fly JAA registered aircraft. The same as needing an FAA licence to fly 'N' registered aircraft. Don't let the facts stop you from posting though
(Psssst! It's 'they're' as in 'they are'.
)
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Not exactly true Flint; you can fly a N registered aircraft with a JAA license even commercially ( JAR-OPs1); this is a temporary measure, limited in scope , registration and time but you can; of course it is not straight forward plan but it is doable.
It is an Authorization not a validation..
It is an Authorization not a validation..
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This topic is really interesting to me, thank you all for replying so active here 
And again sorry for my confusing statement about BH.
I meant of course that BH is very successful, and that they are not successful because of losing money
And again sorry for my confusing statement about BH.
I meant of course that BH is very successful, and that they are not successful because of losing money
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I never knew that this was a language forum
As pointed out before,I would really like to meet native English speakers that fullfill the NJE criteria for speaking 2 or more languages.
Have a good weekend
As pointed out before,I would really like to meet native English speakers that fullfill the NJE criteria for speaking 2 or more languages.
Have a good weekend
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sorry don't understand the relevance of your point - the 'criteria' as you term it is under the heading of preferred profile. So given the choice between two otherwise equal candidates you are not going to pick the guy who speaks poor English even if he could direct a light opera in 8 other languages.
A sound command of the English language is essential in a multi-cultural airline. Being able to chat about the weather in French or Spanish with the passengers is all very nice, but if you screw up handling an abnormal or emergency situation because of poor English then it's all rather irrelevant.
A sound command of the English language is essential in a multi-cultural airline. Being able to chat about the weather in French or Spanish with the passengers is all very nice, but if you screw up handling an abnormal or emergency situation because of poor English then it's all rather irrelevant.
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Flintstone CL300.
You're quite right of course. What I should have taken the time to write is that NJE won't accept this arrangement despite having done so in the very early days.
The dangers of posting in a hurry
You're quite right of course. What I should have taken the time to write is that NJE won't accept this arrangement despite having done so in the very early days.
The dangers of posting in a hurry
I was not reffering to the early days, still today the FAA gives authorisation to fly N registered aircrafts with a JAA licence; As you know we are using N reg Hawkers and falcons as supplemental lift in summer.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Flinty, not according to Carmen in recruitment.
A mate's been told his interview scheduled for August has been postponed.
A mate's been told his interview scheduled for August has been postponed.
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I received the following as a Privat Message, to handle it confidential I removed the user Name. As well I added some Smileys.....
I find it quite interesting, and would be interested if you share his opinion ?
Hello ,
I saw your message on the website . I understand your inquiry & questions . In apparence NJE reflect a good aspect on general way . But , how the company is working is strange and for many aspect there is a lot of grey zone . As far as i know it's a multitude face company . There is a least 5 differents companies , one is handling pilot , other is operating the a/c and pilot ( wich is not the same ! ) , third one is managing the share for owner .
If you choose to work for NJE you will work for NTA wich is the operational side of NJE .
What is sure is NTA is not doing any money at all
, it's loosing at lost . But the real business of NJE is to sale share of A/C . So as far as this business will go on , the company can balance one big loose with the benefit of an other of it's own company .
As soon as the sale of share A/C will slow down or stop .... this will be a difficult period for NTA employees
... or NJE employees wich is nearly the same because NTA is giving 90% of the work.
This model is only valid for a continous growing market, or , like 7 years ago in the States if you reach saturation of the market ... you can not expand any more and then you need to reduce your number of charges . I think NJE will have the same evolution like NJA . Look what happened in US and you will see the same here . Job cuts , reducing salary .
Never forgott , NJE is not transporting very rich people
, they are doing business by saling share of A/C .
Next 2 years will be decisive .
I find it quite interesting, and would be interested if you share his opinion ?
Hello ,
I saw your message on the website . I understand your inquiry & questions . In apparence NJE reflect a good aspect on general way . But , how the company is working is strange and for many aspect there is a lot of grey zone . As far as i know it's a multitude face company . There is a least 5 differents companies , one is handling pilot , other is operating the a/c and pilot ( wich is not the same ! ) , third one is managing the share for owner .
If you choose to work for NJE you will work for NTA wich is the operational side of NJE .
What is sure is NTA is not doing any money at all
, it's loosing at lost . But the real business of NJE is to sale share of A/C . So as far as this business will go on , the company can balance one big loose with the benefit of an other of it's own company . As soon as the sale of share A/C will slow down or stop .... this will be a difficult period for NTA employees
... or NJE employees wich is nearly the same because NTA is giving 90% of the work. This model is only valid for a continous growing market
, or , like 7 years ago in the States if you reach saturation of the market ... you can not expand any more and then you need to reduce your number of charges . I think NJE will have the same evolution like NJA . Look what happened in US and you will see the same here . Job cuts , reducing salary . Never forgott , NJE is not transporting very rich people
, they are doing business by saling share of A/C . Next 2 years will be decisive .
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With regard to the PM, if i could pick out one element for particular ridicule... well actually no it's all b
ks. Although I especially liked 'NJE employees wich is nearly the same because NTA is giving 90% of the work' they obvioulsy don't even realise that NetJets Europe is NTA - I assume they think NTA is the NetJets America.
Whoever wrote that clearly has no idea of what they speak.
ks. Although I especially liked 'NJE employees wich is nearly the same because NTA is giving 90% of the work' they obvioulsy don't even realise that NetJets Europe is NTA - I assume they think NTA is the NetJets America.Whoever wrote that clearly has no idea of what they speak.
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What I really do not grasp is the total oblivion a lot of NJE pilots apparently are living in.
Its ok to defend the company you are working for, of course the airplane you fly is the best in the world etc...
But c'mon people, when somebody is asking an opinion because he/she wants to make a decision based on information (partially found on the net) give them the correct information!
Aviation is suffering, big companies are crumbling under the pressure of environment, fuel costs, shortage of crews, excess of crews,....you name it!
So don't tell me netjets is not suffering, don't tell me netjets has not seen a decrease in number of shares sold, don't tell me netjets did not have to re-design their business model because of the higher fuel prices!
Fair enough, they make most of their money on the selling of aircraft and shares so the operation aspect of NTA does not play that big of a role!
But still, we all know NTA is throwing money out of doors and windows on a daily bases. And untill now that money all came plentifull from the state and Mr W.B's countless enterprises!
But exactly how long is that going to last? W.B. did not become one of the wealthiest men on earth by handing out gifts on a daily bases!
NJE is/has been a test case in Europe for the fractional owner ship model of Netjets USA. And as said before, this is based on an ever expanding market!
But what if the market starts to implode? What if the growth just comes to a stand still? What if the operational costs of NTA do exceed the profit made by selling shares and aircraft?
On the 17th of June I have asked three very straight forward questions, Questions every company in this line of business should ask itself...
Still no answer!
Its ok to defend the company you are working for, of course the airplane you fly is the best in the world etc...
But c'mon people, when somebody is asking an opinion because he/she wants to make a decision based on information (partially found on the net) give them the correct information!
Aviation is suffering, big companies are crumbling under the pressure of environment, fuel costs, shortage of crews, excess of crews,....you name it!
So don't tell me netjets is not suffering, don't tell me netjets has not seen a decrease in number of shares sold, don't tell me netjets did not have to re-design their business model because of the higher fuel prices!
Fair enough, they make most of their money on the selling of aircraft and shares so the operation aspect of NTA does not play that big of a role!
But still, we all know NTA is throwing money out of doors and windows on a daily bases. And untill now that money all came plentifull from the state and Mr W.B's countless enterprises!
But exactly how long is that going to last? W.B. did not become one of the wealthiest men on earth by handing out gifts on a daily bases!
NJE is/has been a test case in Europe for the fractional owner ship model of Netjets USA. And as said before, this is based on an ever expanding market!
But what if the market starts to implode? What if the growth just comes to a stand still? What if the operational costs of NTA do exceed the profit made by selling shares and aircraft?
On the 17th of June I have asked three very straight forward questions, Questions every company in this line of business should ask itself...
Still no answer!
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Interesting, but remember that the US market is different to that in Europe. More private/corporate ownership of aircraft for a start and with a longer history. Also US airspace and airports with one or two exceptions are a lot less congested than in Europe so maybe less reason to use a private aircraft if times are tough, especially with the discounting applied by US airlines who of course cannot go bankrupt due to chapter 11 protection. In Europe, airlines are very fast to pass on increased costs to passengers although there is some evidence of this beginning to happen in the domestic US sector and of course any European ,non state owned airline making a sustained loss can and will go under PDQ. A company such as NJ and they are the biggest of their kind, depend on the patronage of a relatively few high net worth individuals rather than having to cram hundreds of punters into every aircraft, every day to stay afloat. If the whole world goes into free fall over a sustained period then it will not just be aircraft operators who suffer, and there will be more to worry about than selling aircraft shares.
As you say there could be interesting times ahead but thats always been aviation.
As you say there could be interesting times ahead but thats always been aviation.
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OK shneidertrophy - I will bite, for nothing else to do... (FYI I am flying plenty thanks)
Did the Netjets business model cater for prices of 200USD+ per barrel of crude oil?
Yes. It is part of the contract with the share. When fuel goes over an agreed value the owner pays the difference.
Here is a question for you - how many companies had a business model to cater for $200 oil? Or is it just NJ that was so unprepared for this massive price rise?
Did they cover problems arising for an increased pressure on the environment, in case all the rich start flying their own jets? What about the carbon footprints of these nice and shiny sexy jets? The amount of CO2 emission/pax carried?...
There is a carbon offset program. The owners (can) buy in to make everyone happy.
Remember, Netjets ops require a huge amount of empty ferry flights!
Do they? Define Huge.
Did they cater for the rising number of ATC organizations due to the fact that these corporate jets take the same amount of airspace as a 747, they require separation as well etc and this in an already congested airspace, especially over mainland Europe.
You file a flight plan, get accepted, pay the fees. Same as everyone else. And with all this downturn you are so excited about - everyone else is flying less as well.
Did the Netjets business model cater for prices of 200USD+ per barrel of crude oil?
Yes. It is part of the contract with the share. When fuel goes over an agreed value the owner pays the difference.
Here is a question for you - how many companies had a business model to cater for $200 oil? Or is it just NJ that was so unprepared for this massive price rise?
Did they cover problems arising for an increased pressure on the environment, in case all the rich start flying their own jets? What about the carbon footprints of these nice and shiny sexy jets? The amount of CO2 emission/pax carried?...
There is a carbon offset program. The owners (can) buy in to make everyone happy.
Remember, Netjets ops require a huge amount of empty ferry flights!
Do they? Define Huge.
Did they cater for the rising number of ATC organizations due to the fact that these corporate jets take the same amount of airspace as a 747, they require separation as well etc and this in an already congested airspace, especially over mainland Europe.
You file a flight plan, get accepted, pay the fees. Same as everyone else. And with all this downturn you are so excited about - everyone else is flying less as well.
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Well spoken smallfry. One small correction; as far as I'm aware, the carbon offset program is now mandatory for all new owners, existing owners (contracts) CAN buy in to this program.
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There was an article in Flight this week (business aviation section) showing a down turn in premium travel tickets in the US (read business travelers) and a similar upturn in biz jet flights/sales/shares etc....
So if the EU follows the US (it often does) then NJE should be fine....
We also have the added hassle of congested regional hubs and security to further "push" travelers onto smaller aircraft.
iX
So if the EU follows the US (it often does) then NJE should be fine....
We also have the added hassle of congested regional hubs and security to further "push" travelers onto smaller aircraft.
iX