Any news from Eclipse 500 Jets operating in EU?
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Any news from Eclipse 500 Jets operating in EU?
HI
Any news about EASA approval for the EA500? Have you got infos about operating in EU? Got some friends still considering to buy one, and with the dollar plunging its getting cheaper every day...
I would appreciate if you have first hand experience, you can also PM me
thanks for infos
Lars
Any news about EASA approval for the EA500? Have you got infos about operating in EU? Got some friends still considering to buy one, and with the dollar plunging its getting cheaper every day...
I would appreciate if you have first hand experience, you can also PM me
thanks for infos
Lars
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To be honest with you, I think the EA500 is a poor choice. There's nothing wrong with the airframe, it's the avionics system that stinks. They've painted themselves into a corner by promising an integrated avionics suite and full FMS at 1.5m (actually, closer to 2m with options). But if the company is going to be financially viable, they're going to have to start hiking the price to the point where a Mustang or Phenom isn't a much bigger investment for a lot more airplane.
Also, even if it gets certified tomorrow, I wouldn't expect an airplane any time soon. They'll tell you that there's a two year wait, but even if they meet their revised production estimate of 250 airplanes a year, simple math says that it'll be 10 years before they burn through the 2,500 orders already on the books.
Also, even if it gets certified tomorrow, I wouldn't expect an airplane any time soon. They'll tell you that there's a two year wait, but even if they meet their revised production estimate of 250 airplanes a year, simple math says that it'll be 10 years before they burn through the 2,500 orders already on the books.
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As with anything on the net, be careful about what you read on the critic site. There's a lot of uninformed opinion there as well as some true accounts. Of course, whatever Eclipse tells you should be taken with a very large grain of salt as well. As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
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A-hem...
Source: http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/E..._197688-1.html
And I can still hear the voice of the Eclipse rep. saying "we're on track for an EASA certification late 2007".
EASA: New VLJ Certification Requirements Possible
By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor
The European Aviation Safety Agency may put very light jets through additional scrutiny, adapting requirements beyond those of basic certification and addressing an aircraft's specific performance envelope and complexity, according to Flight International. Considering that the Eclipse 500 VLJ can cruise at 41,000 feet, but has no spoilers to facilitate an emergency descent, EASA has suggested that it may devise regulatory requirements to address that and other issues -- regardless of the 500's (or another given aircraft model's) acceptance by the FAA. Such requirements may include tougher testing for software or hardware used in advanced heavily integrated avionics suites often found aboard VLJ designs, tougher checks for backup electrical power, and perhaps a requirement for demonstration of more precise navigational capability that may include a requirement for Mode S transponders. Eclipse is hoping for EASA certification of its Eclipse 500 by late 2009. EASA seems to be setting the stage for the potential introduction of some additional hurdles.
By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor
The European Aviation Safety Agency may put very light jets through additional scrutiny, adapting requirements beyond those of basic certification and addressing an aircraft's specific performance envelope and complexity, according to Flight International. Considering that the Eclipse 500 VLJ can cruise at 41,000 feet, but has no spoilers to facilitate an emergency descent, EASA has suggested that it may devise regulatory requirements to address that and other issues -- regardless of the 500's (or another given aircraft model's) acceptance by the FAA. Such requirements may include tougher testing for software or hardware used in advanced heavily integrated avionics suites often found aboard VLJ designs, tougher checks for backup electrical power, and perhaps a requirement for demonstration of more precise navigational capability that may include a requirement for Mode S transponders. Eclipse is hoping for EASA certification of its Eclipse 500 by late 2009. EASA seems to be setting the stage for the potential introduction of some additional hurdles.
Source: http://www.avweb.com/avwebbiz/news/E..._197688-1.html
And I can still hear the voice of the Eclipse rep. saying "we're on track for an EASA certification late 2007".
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hi
thanks for the replys. the eclipscriticsgblog has very little informational value. just a bunch of egos trying to make a point. most of them got very little clue about aviation.
i have flow the plane in ABQ and was quite impressed. the price is very low with the $/EUR rate now and a delivery slot is available suiting our needs.
you are right about the avionics system. sad its not a Garmin. but there is some movement towards a new solution.
would have appreciated some comments of guys who operate allready or are considering to get one.
Lars
thanks for the replys. the eclipscriticsgblog has very little informational value. just a bunch of egos trying to make a point. most of them got very little clue about aviation.
i have flow the plane in ABQ and was quite impressed. the price is very low with the $/EUR rate now and a delivery slot is available suiting our needs.
you are right about the avionics system. sad its not a Garmin. but there is some movement towards a new solution.
would have appreciated some comments of guys who operate allready or are considering to get one.
Lars
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It's still not certified for FIKI so far as I know and I wouldn't expect it to be until next year at least. But that one isn't really Eclipse's fault. The FAA has rewritten the regs to the point that I'm not sure that any new aircraft with inflatable boots will ever pass. I think their best bet is to go with a TKS system, but maybe they can talk some sense into the FAA.
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I spoke to a very senior aero guy at (A large aircraft manufacturer in Wichita) who did not have an commercial axe to grind (This guy had a tufted PC Monitor!), who expressed a concern with the tail surface areas and Cof G issues at light weights.
Apparently they got their measurements from a scaled picture of the aircraft at an early development stage and managed to get measurements by scaling the pilot. Figures for the EA500 were not good so somebody was sent to stand next to the pilot in the picture to properly assess his height to make sure that the initial sizes were correct!!
Apparently they got their measurements from a scaled picture of the aircraft at an early development stage and managed to get measurements by scaling the pilot. Figures for the EA500 were not good so somebody was sent to stand next to the pilot in the picture to properly assess his height to make sure that the initial sizes were correct!!
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the price is very low with the $/EUR rate now
-It is a proven product
-It is a certified product
-It is a stable manufacturer
-There are no oustanding items
Currently that is a NO for all 4 so not sure if it is a low price in the long run..
a delivery slot is available suiting our needs.
Year: 2008 TTAF: 0 S/N: 522
Reg: Price: Make Offer
Location: NM, USA
(Feb 2008 delivery!)
They have just delivered S/N: 175
Take the critic website for 50% for what it is worth but maybe read something from a fellow german Jan Brill the Managing Editor of pilotundflugzeug on April 20, 2008 4:02 PM.... quite shocking....
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Any chance of finding a translation or a summary of that article on the web (I guess it's written in German) ?
G-SPOT, I read your post at least three times and I'm still not sure I understood correctly. Say again, please... slllloooooowwwwwwlllllllyyyyy ("my brain hurts")
G-SPOT, I read your post at least three times and I'm still not sure I understood correctly. Say again, please... slllloooooowwwwwwlllllllyyyyy ("my brain hurts")
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Errrrrrr, yes managed to confuse myself - happens frequently.
Imagine picture of a pilot stood next to the aircraft, pilot is 6'0
Tail height is (on the picture) 2 x height of pilot = 12'0
If pilot is 5'6 tail height is 11'0
In this case pilot wasn't known so was tracked down and his height "assessed"....... a/c measurements made of the picture now they have a reference and product threat assesment made.
Competitors dont normally invite each other to the development hangars with tape measures!, happens a lot in the automotive industry as well apparently
Imagine picture of a pilot stood next to the aircraft, pilot is 6'0
Tail height is (on the picture) 2 x height of pilot = 12'0
If pilot is 5'6 tail height is 11'0
In this case pilot wasn't known so was tracked down and his height "assessed"....... a/c measurements made of the picture now they have a reference and product threat assesment made.
Competitors dont normally invite each other to the development hangars with tape measures!, happens a lot in the automotive industry as well apparently
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hi
i have to say that even if you speak fluently german, the articles written by him in the Pilot und Flugzeug are very controversially and should be read carefully. Taking in account the background and experience plus information available his articles lean a bit far out of the window.
...but very amusing..
atleast one journo fights for the aviation instead against it...
but he seems to have an axe to grind with EA, or maybe because the pages filling ads from beech in his mag, its hard to stay objective...
cheers
lars
i have to say that even if you speak fluently german, the articles written by him in the Pilot und Flugzeug are very controversially and should be read carefully. Taking in account the background and experience plus information available his articles lean a bit far out of the window.
...but very amusing..
atleast one journo fights for the aviation instead against it...
but he seems to have an axe to grind with EA, or maybe because the pages filling ads from beech in his mag, its hard to stay objective...
cheers
lars
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perhaps a requirement for demonstration of more precise navigational capability that may include a requirement for Mode S transponders
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hi no RYR for me...
if you have been working for such a bad employer and you have to post in such a manner about RYR, i have to seriously doubt your decicionmaking
maybe this lack of general overlook also limits your view and fact gathering even today
blue skies
lars
if you have been working for such a bad employer and you have to post in such a manner about RYR, i have to seriously doubt your decicionmaking
maybe this lack of general overlook also limits your view and fact gathering even today
blue skies
lars
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if you have been working for such a bad employer and you have to post in such a manner about RYR, i have to seriously doubt your decicionmaking
But lets do some fact gathering: when is the slot due that perfectly fits your requirements?
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G-SPOT,
The Eclipse has plenty of tail. The CG envelope was restrictive on the early aircraft due solely to trim tab effectiveness. Even then, you could only get that far aft when you're single crew with a very light weight pilot. The performance mods that go along with the bigger tip tanks include a re-designed trim tab and the CG envelope has been expanded.
Interesting spy story, though. I would think that unless you had someone standing directly next to the tail, it'd be tough to get accurate numbers. Even then, you'd have to know your exact distance to the camera and the exact focal length of the lens. If it was a zoom, that'd be nearly impossible.
The Eclipse has plenty of tail. The CG envelope was restrictive on the early aircraft due solely to trim tab effectiveness. Even then, you could only get that far aft when you're single crew with a very light weight pilot. The performance mods that go along with the bigger tip tanks include a re-designed trim tab and the CG envelope has been expanded.
Interesting spy story, though. I would think that unless you had someone standing directly next to the tail, it'd be tough to get accurate numbers. Even then, you'd have to know your exact distance to the camera and the exact focal length of the lens. If it was a zoom, that'd be nearly impossible.