Anybody here flying the Falcon 7X ?
Currently fortunate to be flying G550s, but always glancing at those Falcons, not even lifting my eyebrow at a Global.
I was wondering if pilots who have flown both the G550 and F7X could elaborate a bit on pro's and con's of The F7X vs The Gs?
Thanks
I was wondering if pilots who have flown both the G550 and F7X could elaborate a bit on pro's and con's of The F7X vs The Gs?
Thanks
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I'm currently flying both a fairly new 7x as well as a brand-new 550, having previously flown both a 900B and loads of GVs and 550s..
It was also my privilege to be the delivery pilot on both birds, giving me some perspective as to how the products are marketed and perceived by the manufacturers themselves.
On the whole, the 550 is the most reliable, mission-capable, versatile bird out there: it wants to go fly, and never quits on you. Although I haver never stretched the 550-legs to their limit, I remember a 14:50 ferry flight with the GV over 6469 air miles, with decent reserve on landing... It just goes and goes..
The 7x on the other hand has been fussy, with penty of little aches and pains, most of which endup being no-gos on the MEL. Even today, you leave the factory with a 20-page " pilot assist list" and a 15-page "dispatch guidance" supposed to help you decide what are nuisance warnings, what are no-gos, and what you might get rid of by just turning the thing off and on again... And thisnis software version 10!
Also, while the Easy platform is generally a more advanced concept than what's applied on the Gulfstream (no more FMS-mcdus, no need for additional panels on the glareshield..), some features are still missing on the 7x: CPDLC, PDC for example will only come with Easy 2, with no final release date published..
However! The last 6 month or so have been pretty smooth sailing on the Falcon, with only minor squawks. Also, some of the capabilities we require, like operation into London City and other smaller airfields, you can just plain forget eve doing with a Gulfstream or a Global. Overall our customer is happy with his cabin (yes, with additional soundproofing it IS the quietest in the sky!), and when we were able to fly him from the South of France to Singapore direct the other day, that put a smile on his face..
Lastly, the FBW controls: they are EXCELLENT! Compared to the Airbusses I have known (319-20-21), they are not only simpler, faster and more intuitive, but crosswind landings and take-offs are now absolutely problem-free up to 25knots cross... Personnally, I would not hesitate to attempt a 30knots cross landing on a standard runway..
Lastly, we come to the ONE big difference which for me makes the 550 the match-winner:
When you buy a Falcon, the chief pilot will give you a little briefing about the latest software version, and announce with a smile that all issues have been solved (!), and that you now own the best product in the world..
As a pilot, you get your account set up with DassaultFalcon, and start getting little Falcon Service Advisories about new issues and incidents on the fleet, and here is the rub: when a component is identified as failure prone, Dassault will conclude its bulletin by saying similar components will be replaced free of charge on AN ATTRITION BASIS, meaning "when yours breaks down we'll come and fix it". As a result, We have missed 2 customer flights while waiting for parts that we KNEW were prone to failure before it happened.
Now on the 550, the same delivery briefing is given to customers by the reliability program manager, and he will go over every single known issue with you, and more often than not, faulty components identified on other serial numbers will prompt a FLEET-WIDE inspection and exchange program BEFORE it happens again!! Gulfstream spend a lot of money on this kind of program, and the result shows in the 99.8% dispatch reliability, which for once I actually believe as a customer.
So on the whole, while both aircraft will have snags, and the 7x is the sleeker of the 2 products, the 550 wins the day for reliability and ease of operation. It's not set in stone however, and I will be watching with interest both the 650 program as well as the continued improvement on the 7x with Easy2..
Hope I was able to shed a useful light on a few questions askes in this thread..
FlyMD
It was also my privilege to be the delivery pilot on both birds, giving me some perspective as to how the products are marketed and perceived by the manufacturers themselves.
On the whole, the 550 is the most reliable, mission-capable, versatile bird out there: it wants to go fly, and never quits on you. Although I haver never stretched the 550-legs to their limit, I remember a 14:50 ferry flight with the GV over 6469 air miles, with decent reserve on landing... It just goes and goes..
The 7x on the other hand has been fussy, with penty of little aches and pains, most of which endup being no-gos on the MEL. Even today, you leave the factory with a 20-page " pilot assist list" and a 15-page "dispatch guidance" supposed to help you decide what are nuisance warnings, what are no-gos, and what you might get rid of by just turning the thing off and on again... And thisnis software version 10!
Also, while the Easy platform is generally a more advanced concept than what's applied on the Gulfstream (no more FMS-mcdus, no need for additional panels on the glareshield..), some features are still missing on the 7x: CPDLC, PDC for example will only come with Easy 2, with no final release date published..
However! The last 6 month or so have been pretty smooth sailing on the Falcon, with only minor squawks. Also, some of the capabilities we require, like operation into London City and other smaller airfields, you can just plain forget eve doing with a Gulfstream or a Global. Overall our customer is happy with his cabin (yes, with additional soundproofing it IS the quietest in the sky!), and when we were able to fly him from the South of France to Singapore direct the other day, that put a smile on his face..
Lastly, the FBW controls: they are EXCELLENT! Compared to the Airbusses I have known (319-20-21), they are not only simpler, faster and more intuitive, but crosswind landings and take-offs are now absolutely problem-free up to 25knots cross... Personnally, I would not hesitate to attempt a 30knots cross landing on a standard runway..
Lastly, we come to the ONE big difference which for me makes the 550 the match-winner:
When you buy a Falcon, the chief pilot will give you a little briefing about the latest software version, and announce with a smile that all issues have been solved (!), and that you now own the best product in the world..
As a pilot, you get your account set up with DassaultFalcon, and start getting little Falcon Service Advisories about new issues and incidents on the fleet, and here is the rub: when a component is identified as failure prone, Dassault will conclude its bulletin by saying similar components will be replaced free of charge on AN ATTRITION BASIS, meaning "when yours breaks down we'll come and fix it". As a result, We have missed 2 customer flights while waiting for parts that we KNEW were prone to failure before it happened.
Now on the 550, the same delivery briefing is given to customers by the reliability program manager, and he will go over every single known issue with you, and more often than not, faulty components identified on other serial numbers will prompt a FLEET-WIDE inspection and exchange program BEFORE it happens again!! Gulfstream spend a lot of money on this kind of program, and the result shows in the 99.8% dispatch reliability, which for once I actually believe as a customer.
So on the whole, while both aircraft will have snags, and the 7x is the sleeker of the 2 products, the 550 wins the day for reliability and ease of operation. It's not set in stone however, and I will be watching with interest both the 650 program as well as the continued improvement on the 7x with Easy2..
Hope I was able to shed a useful light on a few questions askes in this thread..
FlyMD
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FlyMD I want your job !
Having flown the last 16 years on the A320/321, I surely miss the challenges flying business jets around the world.
Gulfstreams are the best looking equipment out there, and I would very much appreciate sitting in the front left seat of one.........
Having flown the last 16 years on the A320/321, I surely miss the challenges flying business jets around the world.
Gulfstreams are the best looking equipment out there, and I would very much appreciate sitting in the front left seat of one.........
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Thanks for making me see how good my life is..
However I confess that sometimes, when juggling slots into congested airports, worrying about pilot and FA rosters, running last minute errands for the Boss while trying to pacify the maintenance manager and our accountants, I find myself longing for the simpler times when flying the airplane was pretty much all the company asked me to do...
Be careful what you wish for...
However I confess that sometimes, when juggling slots into congested airports, worrying about pilot and FA rosters, running last minute errands for the Boss while trying to pacify the maintenance manager and our accountants, I find myself longing for the simpler times when flying the airplane was pretty much all the company asked me to do...
Be careful what you wish for...
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Yes, it does surprisingly well on one engine. Considering that those little PW's are only producing 6400lbs of thrust and MTOW is 70,000lbs. Mid weight it should hold onto about 15,000 feet on one engine.
Of course.... Would you really want to be in that position?
Of course.... Would you really want to be in that position?
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A friend has been flying the 7X for a number of years now, and he despises the airplane. According to him, the 900EX was a better airplane from a flying and reliability standpoint. His favorite after nine corporate type ratings? The Gulfstream.
My son, who flies the 4 and 550, loves the Gulfstreams.
I haven't ever flown the 7X, but my impression, after hearing the stories, is that it is another case of too much college and not enough high school.
My son, who flies the 4 and 550, loves the Gulfstreams.
I haven't ever flown the 7X, but my impression, after hearing the stories, is that it is another case of too much college and not enough high school.
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Hated the 7X all talk...but no substance, the 900 on the other hand, practical no where near as quirky and for the most part it worked.
Not a patch on the 777 I drive these days, but for a corporate jet, my heart is in the 900.
Not a patch on the 777 I drive these days, but for a corporate jet, my heart is in the 900.
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Can't say I disagree with anything posted above.. but in the end, ladies and gents, it's the customer who chooses the airplane that best suits his needs! Just 3 citypairs I planned last year, let's hear from anybody who has done them with something else than a 7x 
London City - Boston Logan
San Francisco - St-Tropez (La Môle)
Saanen - Cairo
All sectors done within limits of AOC ops and with no cheating on RWY analysis or W+B...
FlyMD
London City - Boston Logan
San Francisco - St-Tropez (La Môle)
Saanen - Cairo
All sectors done within limits of AOC ops and with no cheating on RWY analysis or W+B...
FlyMD
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I fly the Falcon 7X, have flown the717/767/757/747 and the 320/330, all i can say is its great fun bit of gear ,the fbw system is much better than the airbuses and with the latest updates, i have had no problems.
Last edited by DOCTOR BOMBAY; 23rd Jan 2013 at 22:21.